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	Regeneration Manifesto: Pt 3, 14.9.2011 © Welkin The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 3, Structure the Season
	Regeneration Manifesto: Pt 2, 8.9.2011 © Welkin The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 2, The Situation

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2016-10-25 server change

Columns: On the anticheat

Well, after playing on some servers, seeing some comments (especially in the UK vs FIN game), and talking to some players, I constated alot of things and ended with one conclusion: anticheat needs an up-date.

A lot of cheaters are playing, and we can't do anything. Admins kick and ban them, but they come back with other nicks but same hacks. I wanted to say something to you, q2 players, can't you do anything to stop the hackers? Just watch and lough? Or, maybe some of you are already cheaters? Lets return to anticheat history.

There used to be something called NoCheat. It was essential for every player to have it. It was powerful anticheat software, it could detect any cheater and any hacker. Q2 was safe. Until the day came, when the NoCheat got hacked, cheaters made new hacks that could be used with NoCheat activated. NoCheat was not powerful enough anymore. It has became a cheat weapon, even worse, having NoCheat meant that you are cheating... Q2 was not safe.

Then, came r1ch with his new invention. He made something more powerful, the "anticheat". A lot of cheaters and hackers got detected, a lot of players that we thought were one of the best, were actually cheating. A lot of players has shown their real face, everyone was using it, everyone was happy, cause there are no cheaters around anymore. Servers started forcing "AC" and making exceptions for linux and old os players. Playing became more fair and more fun. Q2 became safe again.

Now, the question is, is q2 still safe? The responce is: NO! Q2 is once again full of cheaters. Players have discovered new cheats, have made new hacks, and they are even selling them to others. Want an exemple? Go play on coolnet dm server, if you dont find at least 2-3 cheaters i'll give you my pc. Also, the big cheater that we all know of: RAZOR (also known as dial-up, rat, 11, divx,...). He has made some powerful hacks that can be used with Rich's "AC". "AC" doesn't prove anymore that you are not a cheater. Servers are now full of haxors. Who knows, maybe purri is cheating? Maybe mirr is right and provi is cheating? Maybe I'm a cheater? "AC" doesnt tell anymore.

I wanted to say something to r1ch, have you abandonned the "AC" project? Is there any new "AC" up-date coming? Why are hackers still around on "AC" servers? You have to make a new up-date, cause right now, "AC" is useless (only 11 detected cheaters, out of, say, 100).

R1ch, you have never answered my questions. If you have abondonned the "AC" project, tell us. Maybe someone can do better. If not, what are you waiting for? A lot of people are sick of cheaters around a server that ruin all the fun. Trust me, you can get these cheats easier than you think.

After some thinking, someone gave me a good but risky solution: making an alliance, the "AC" maker with the hack maker. The hacker provides you with new hacks and cheats and you make new "AC" up-dates that make these hacks detectable (like razor provides r1ch with his hacks and r1ch makes the up-date; in return razor will be unbanned from some servers). Risky but... it can be the ultimate solution. If it works, then q2 will be safe again. If it doesnt, q2 will be much more unsafe.

I just wanted to write this article to show that there are a lot of cheaters that are ruining the game and making it lame. I also wanted to show r1ch the real situation of the "AC".

Thanks for reading and I'm waiting for your comments.

sofiene,the tunisian player.

Comments

Xian	2011-09-16 18:12
	http://www.sendspace.com/file/q0czoa yo, here is a video, made with fraps, with cheat, on ac with r1q2, i made like over a month ago. it pretty much shows, what i explained in my previous post. Edited: 2011-09-16 18:17
Xian	2011-09-16 17:13
	http://q2scene.net/euroq2l/index.php?op=com&id=2420 yea, ok, after reading thru this thread, again, and also done some more ac tests, and read thru another thread where ppl claim apr is hacked but r1q2 is not, i have to say: 1: aclist: yea, this idiot who started this thread, dont understand, most cheaters are not using anticheat, type aclist before crying about it to check if they are legit or not. ac is not as hacked, as ppl think, but there is working cheats for it, but mostly only cheats, like wh and color aimbot are easiest to use. adding strict checks, serverside, for spiked models, and sounds, wont stop any injected cheats or third party tools. 2: acinfo: ac have done alot of updates, since over a year ago, it was a simple joke to get past with, and also added checks for modified clients, and modified ref dll files, and updated file protection. like before u could take a detected hack, and edit it so the blocked hash of the cheat, didnt match the one, on richs ac server anymore, and it would work again with ac. 3: aprq2: about wh, i see idiots saying stuff like, "why are u using apr, cheater, use r1q2", but how do they know richs is the safer client? if u would ask any of those, they would have no info, its just what they think, but they never tried to make sure that their claims is correctly stated. some ppl, also seem to forget that, all the clients are using same ac module, so anything undetected working on apr for example will work with r1q2 also. asking someone with experience, like me, i would say, and know, since i tested, that richs client, is most vulnerable to wallhacks, on the cs engine, since most stuff works better with it, and some dont even work at all, with apr, egl or q2pro bc they have newer engines, and also render the game different from r1q2. its just easier to toggle with apr, since it dont block hotkeys in game, like r1q2, but if u toggle a wallhack with hotkeys with for example r1q2, u would have to minimize the client, and then click on the desk, and then press the hotkey buttons, in order to toggle the cheat in the game. if now aprq2, is going to get banned in edl, or euroq2, then i think r1q2 should be banned too, since its possible, to cheat with as easy as apr. 4: wallhack test: after a couple of tests, under this year, i have found egl to be the winner, for safest client. here is some tests, i have done, with cheats on the cs engine, on those four supported clients. r1q2: all cheats on the cs engine, is working just fine, with this client. aprq2: all cheats on cs engine, works with this client, but entity style wallhacks, that draws water thru walls only worked in some maps, and entity style wallhacks, that dont draw water, didnt work at all with apr. q2pro: with this client, only transparent wallhack would work, not semi transparent, only full. anything else, would not be drawn, and its only working in some maps. egl: with this client, nothing i have found, from any game, yet, is working. Edited: 2011-09-18 21:34
Xian	2011-04-25 12:17
	imo, when some ppl are thinking mirr is silly, for accusing ppl to right or left, using wallhack, should rethink the possibility he could be right. most of the time though, its just excuses for losing, but i know some ppl who cheat, with ac, but will not give names though. its also possible, to use spiked models in ac server, since sha1 hashes can be spoofed, and use hashes of unmodified models. ac is nothing more than false sense of security, as u can see in my screenies, video, and demos, and sure, it stops basic cheats and so, didnt say anything else, but its also possible to hack, with it loaded up, and i also had a theory i told mirr on mirc, but i shouldnt post it here, since if this works, ac will be completely useless, but i will have to do some tests first, to make sure, if my idea works or not. Edited: 2011-04-25 19:17
Xian	2011-04-25 11:39
	http://www.xprojects.webs.com/az.rar im bored, so i decided to post my video, i made some days ago on ac server, with wh and r1q2, and aprq2, using two wallhacks, one for r1q2, and one for aprq2. in my first video, i am using a more transparent wh, for r1q2, and then a semi transparent with black sky for aprq2. my wallhack video, with r1q2 were a little short, bc i hit the hotkey, that stops recording, so it was only four seconds long, and didnt bother making another, but who cares, i got the aclist part in. my fraps, speeded up the video a little though, only 2x faster, so u know, and i tried to change it sitting in server, but ac kept kicking me for modified client so i decided to not touch it. Edited: 2011-04-25 19:16
centaurius	2011-02-16 14:30
	All FFA servers I see with ppl dont even enforced AC...
sofiene	2011-02-12 11:11
	@wision,pogo,dem and some others : i didnt made this article after seeing razor cheating or some few others,i saw alot of players cheating,ffa servers are the proof..also,it is annoying to see cheaters in TDM servers,all the fun is gone,and i dont accuse evryone that rape me in some matches a hacker,i call him like that after spectating him. that's exactly what purri said,you dont play in public,you play only for leagues or with some friends (that ofc dont think they cheat),try to connect in some public servers where you dont know any,then you can judge
Xian	2011-01-29 16:06
	http://xprojects.webs.com/dialup.jpg btw, just to prove i dont lie i will post my screenie from may, and aclist was also made in my demo. still have it and can upload it if anyone want to see. Edited: 2011-01-29 16:14
Xian	2011-01-29 12:07
	whininggaywish, cant believe i just heard from a source that fagotjoker beated u, when u had 7 ping, and flapjack also raped u with his 190 ping. well, i am at flapjacks level, and have won him when i was on dial up, and then i hear u lose to him with lan ping. what we see here is just ridiculous and also very funny and made my day: 1: u lost against two players with lan ping i can beat easily. 2: u think u can beat me. Edited: 2011-01-29 14:31
whirlingdervish	2011-01-28 18:30
	it's pretty funny that you still deny that you got raped and try to make up shit like "That's not me!" I've had that screeny since the day of the match and I showed it to you on TS the last time you got on your high horse and pretended that you don't totally suck at q2. You pinged exactly 158 to Texas servers for 2 years, and now you're trying to say 210? ROFL. Your dumbass swede friend killah (you know, the one you gave a copy of frk who got caught with it) is horrible at insta. I rape him regularly. Good try tho. Thanks for confirming where he got that for me. Have fun backing up any of those claims about you beating decent people legit or me losing hard on my own server. I don't profess to be great at q2, but I can count the number of times I've lost a match lately on one hand, in duel or itdm, and I play legit every time. I'll bet you can't say the same and be telling the truth.
Xian	2011-01-28 04:06
	mm, yea, about me so called refusing to play ppl without cheats, gaywish, thats just some bs coming from a moron from usa who always gets raped on his own server and never play with me or even against me so ur point is invalid, and even killah is good enough to rape u in insta. want me to post up some demos of my latest duels, both insta and duel matches when i win against good ppl legit without stuff? im all for it, just to take away that stupid "omg, hax wtf bbq" view on me and realize i am just playing for fun. im not even banned from some servers, and u know why? bc there is nobody who have reported me cheating. Edited: 2011-01-28 06:08
Xian	2011-01-28 03:44
	http://rbreborn.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=76 nice, but i never touched a hack, or even knew what a hack was before late 2008, as everyone can see, in my post to reborn above explaining myself to them. oh, nice screenie, u had someone playing as me, because i pinged 210 to monsterkill so try again please and make sure i look worse this time. btw, pogo, no, i only did it to show ac is still broken, and also i see some bullshit on na servers and on their forum where ppl like gaywish noob mate alpha always say stuff like: oh, he had ac, he is not hacking for sure. imo, thats some false sense of security, and i am not saying, that ppl who are making good shots is hacking, like damiah or purri or any famous top tier are hacking, bc i can tell real skill from cheating, but i am always suspectious, bc before i had a little doubt about ac, and now i wont dont trust it at all, but like centaurius say, better with it on and stop all old cheats. Edited: 2011-01-28 03:47
whirlingdervish	2011-01-27 16:09
	quotes from razor: "btw, when it comes to to skill both me and mirr would rape u with ez in tdm and probably insta too while we talk." "anyway, mirr is better than reaper and i am better than reaper, and much better than u also since u refuse to play me, or vital and always making up excuses like we would be waste of playtime." 1: You are a waste of time, since you refuse to play people without using cheats. 2: I've never refused to play a legit match vs you. You just haven't been legit for years. 3: This is what happened the last time we played on the same server: You got owned, and the alias carrying you got screwed by how much you suck. http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/3632/2v2itdmrazorrandomalias.jpg since then, you've been hacking almost every time you've played and got worse while I played 100% legit and got better. Getting newb'd at insta by someone who's mediocre at best must have really stung.
wision	2011-01-27 04:09
	what pogo said.
centaurius	2011-01-24 13:18
	Its not a cheat/hack that kills a game. Its the people that spread them. And btw... u say "In this day and age thoug" I remember playing CS 1.3 in college like in 2001/2002 and hacks available at the time did all of those things. And guess what... its 2011 now. Although AC isnt 100% fool-proof I'd rather had it ON than just keeping it off and let those "old hacks" comeback from the grave.
Delita	2011-01-24 06:13
	You have the wrong idea Pogo. It's not about proving R1Q2 is a useless counter measure or proving that there is cheaters in Quake 2. It's about showing that hacks are hard to detect now days are the scene is now a bureacratic nightmare so doing anything about it is pointless. Truth is, this is the cancer that is going to kill Quake 2 off for good. I hate to say it because I love the game as much as anyone else. In a way I am pretty glad I will be putting it to rest soon because at least I will avoid this stuff before it gets worse. Back in the old days hackers were easy to spot. The lack of experience or development in tactical ability made ratbots and wallhacks illuminate. In this day and age though, hacks can be turned on and off, have specific settings allowing them to target certain skins or area of effect and so on. If the scene wants to save its ass it needs to cut the childish horse shit. Slap the mouthy fuckers across the face and clamp down on everyone in order to cut out the root of decay. Edited: 2011-01-24 06:17
Pogo	2011-01-23 23:54
	Question for razor: why are you doing this? To show the world that cheating is still possible? There are no fool-proof countermeasures for these things, it's well known already and making MORE cheats just to prove a point has to be the most useless thing one could possibly do. Just fucking stop making cheats and there will at least be fewer of them, simple as that. And to sofiene and the others who think cheating is common in q2; IMO it isn't. I'd like to think of myself as a top level player and I see maybe 4-5 obvious cheating cases a year, no more. And those are pretty much all on russian FFA servers. People have truly fantastic aims these days. Having played for nearly 10 years now I know even I can hit stuff that looks "wrong", but that comes from many years of experience, knowing how people move and what routes they are likely to take. And to the people who are actually sad enough to cheat in a game that's over 10 years old: You can't have much joy in your lives. Go ahead and beat me with your cheats, I hope it made you feel a tiny bit better. You probably needed it.
whirlingdervish	2011-01-21 18:16
	thank you for proving my points. both of you. delita = scared to post a demo of his play because he doesn't beat NA players who are decent. he even called hacks on reaper during the match he lost. http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=15381.msg156711#msg156711 razor = beating off to any mention of hacks in a forum, daily since 2007. I won't even bother to address the razor wall o text multipost with much more than a few lines, since its all confirming my statement that he doesn't write his own hacks. He just fiddles around hoping to make other people's hax work. His hex editing to allow spiked models is caught by ac. r1ch owned his ass by blocking modified clients in a way that razor can't figure out. When he says "imo, ac is still broken and is easily hacked" it's pretty obvious that he's just talking out his ass. If it was easily hacked, razor wouldn't have upwards of 200 known hack hits on the ac shame site. His opinion is that of a clueless kid who doesn't know dick about programming and who relies on the hacks others made who don't even touch q2 anymore. Edited: 2011-01-21 18:24
Xian	2011-01-21 13:02
	http://q2scene.net/ds/index.php?op=dd2&id=1169336003 "when one of them gets caught on demo, and the ac logs roll in, they'll all go down, just remember that if you deal with this emo clown." yea, also he knows my stuff works bc i sent him a copy of my old ratbot, i hacked and i let him test it on server but he was caught, and kolt did aclist in that demo and it shows him and me using valid ac.. imo, ac is still broken and is easily hacked by anyone with a little know how. Edited: 2011-01-21 13:07
Delita	2011-01-21 06:31
	I seriously doubt any claim you make "delita". <-- You can believe whatever you want. Truth is that I can come over to US and kick your scrawly little ass any time I wish.. and Reapers too. So I guess you boil down to two options. Stay deluded or accept the facts.
Xian	2011-01-21 03:10
	mm, actually, i didnt use hex editor to rehack old cheats but i used asm tools, i only used hex editor to edit my clients to look for spiked models in another folder and then i could use any models i wanted in hash servers. Edited: 2011-01-21 03:14
Xian	2011-01-21 01:21
	whininggaywish, my demos shows zbot with autoshoot and ratbot without any autoshoot, since u just simply need to press the fire key and it will aim like frk. zbot is that kind of bot that have an in game menu and if u turn the zbot on then autoshoot is on as well and if u turn it off both aim and autoshoot is off, unlike ratbot, even if u turn off autoshoot in ratbot, the aimbot is still on and can easily be spotted if someone pull the trigger. zbot: --------------------- zbot is an clientside proxy aimbot, with an in game menu that is toggled with impulse commands, and also have options for aimbot toggle, team mode, ping prediction, built in scanner, and is easily detected by server tools like bw admin, q2admin, and will not work with osp and lithium mods. zbot is a little different from ratbot bc it have a shaky aim that also will lock on the target, unlock, and locks again while ratbot have smoother aim but isnt as accurate as zbot is on higher pings, and zbot will aim for all weapons while ratbot will just aim with all weapons using attack key while autoshoot is off and when autoshoot is on it will just aim and shoot once with mg and cg and therefore people need to toggle autoshoot on and off with ratbot to make it more effective depending what weapon is being used at what moment. zbot and ratbot is easy to spot and unlike frk it will return to where the crosshair was before it started aim and will also make a fast spin if fov is set very high, but zbot is also the only bot that can disconnect from the crosshair, and will sometimes look like u shoot from ur back instead of doing a spin like ratbot always does but i guess its a bug in the aim code and it was fixed in ratbot. zbot is in my opinion, the best aimbot for quake2, since it works well with high ping, have options for team mode, and u can also change aimbot fov in game between lowest 30 up to 360 for some obvious botting. hpb mode ----------: yea, works well with pings less than 220 autoshoot toggle --: no, only when bot is on aimbot toggle -----: yea team mode -------: yea ratbot: --------------------- its another clientside bot, like zbot but less effective but will work on bw admin, q2admin, osp and lithium servers, if all options is turned off and just using mouse key to do the aiming while its pressed and it have smoother aim than zbot and some lower fovs from 10 to 360. it doesnt have an in game menu or team mode like zbot but can toggle autoshoot on and off with impulse commands. hpb mode ----------: yea, works well with pings less than 110 autoshoot toggle --: yea, its toggled with impulse aimbot toggle -----: no team mode -------: no frkq2: --------------------- name of this hack is frkq2 and is a multihack written by franck from brazil, to spoof some older nocheat clients and it will also spoof latest q2ace, but this hack is detected on q2admin servers and will throw frk in an infinite reconnect. hpb mode ----------: yea, works well with pings less than 140 autoshoot toggle --: yea aimbot toggle -----: yea team mode -------: yea ogc: --------------------- yea, ogc is a multihack, like frk but works a bit different, and will also aim thru walls and works much better with high pings and have an ip spoof string command used to trick mods into reading the wrong ip, to evade any bans added by admins, but this method is also now detected on servers hosted with richs client since its an exploit fix and would get u auto banned if u tried to use this on any public server hosted with r1q2. hpb mode ----------: yea, works well with pings less than 210 autoshoot toggle --: yea aimbot toggle -----: yea team mode -------: yea note: there is a zgh hack, written by zaltekk used to simulate nocheat that is supposed to bypass q2admin, and see admins ban nocheat bc of their paranoia over some nocheat users, but just add some small simply checks for frk strings and a version string ban for q2ace bc zgh doesnt change the version string when its used with frk, and some of the latest q2admin would also detect this hack if frk check is on and will display: name was caught cheating! name was kicked. note: i have also found a very funny bug in ogc and frk, since both their team mode is enabled by default, u can use same skin as the bot user and his bot wont aim at u whitch would give u a laugh or two when he think his bot doesnt work anymore. Edited: 2011-01-21 01:34
whirlingdervish	2011-01-20 20:30
	I'm not saying his hacks don't work. I'm saying that most of them are either very obvious or easily broken, and that his screenies and demos dont prove shit. I actually had someone infiltrate his little hack forum a year ago and we stole the vast majority of his hacks and gave them to r1ch. I've seen what the kid can do and it's not much other than copypasting other people's methods. his demos consist of the most obvious fov aimbot in the world short of a 360 degree autoshoot ratbot. his wallhacks dont circumvent a little feature that's been in q2admin for years, and he and most of his buddies are bare newbies who cannot help but make it obvious as they track thru walls. his spiked models can be blocked with ease on an ac server by an admin with his head on straight. with regards to r1ch coming on here and blathering about how he detects hacks, thats a stupid idea. The reason r1ch isn't here explaining shit is because people like razor sit around all day beating off to any post on a q2 forum that even briefly mentions hacking. You don't go and give the enemy information on your secret weapons. fortunately for us, there are ways to detect hacks that do not require comparing a file to a hash value and having a copy of the exact file. I won't get into the specifics, but I will state that I'd put my money on the accomplished programmer who's actually written his own code from scratch instead of the clueless newbie who twiddles shit in a hex editor on someone elses fully compiled 5 year old hacks and thinks that this makes him a master hacker. Razor isn't in the same league, he knows it and hes running short on workarounds to steal from others, and that's why he won't be releasing his hacks publicly. That means only a select few will be using them, and that means the overall threat is close to nil. When one of them gets caught on demo, and the ac logs roll in, they'll all go down. Just remember that if you deal with this emo clown.
dem	2011-01-20 19:21
	ehh, what a pointless discussion... i was offline for a while (half a year) but damn... it looks like you just dont believe razors rehexed cheats does really work. he does small changes in old cheats but its enough to make them work... the problem is that rich cant marked a cheat untill he has copy of it in his hands... if sth changed since I was a bit informed, just let me know I'm wrong and rich can do better now. I know rich trace many things, eg. wrong checksums for clients with loaded dll files, but as he claims if its wrong its only a suspicion, nothing else, and it cant be a proof in a cheat case, until he get a copy of cheat and check checksums for it... razor stuff works... it would be better if he (rich) join this small shit-talk and tell us what is possible and what is a lie... without this we are just walking blind in deep darkness for the end... u all think only about old cheats which were used by many players but still there are people who do better on their own... keeping private cheats as well protected secret... the question is: what is Richs statement and what would he say about cheat case... Edited: 2011-01-20 19:23
whirlingdervish	2011-01-20 15:42
	I seriously doubt any claim you make "delita". Lets see a demo of you actually beating anyone who's good from NA before you go on filling our ears with your bullshit about how great you are and how you think you're better than purri while assuming that anyone playing on his level is using an aimbot. I'll bet you there are at least 3 players on right this very second in NA that can rape you and I'll bet that deep down inside you fucking know it. have fun sucking off razor you feeb.
Delita	2011-01-20 03:42
	I believe Reaper forgot to mention that I was incredibly drunk when he beat me by about 1 frag. I can bearly even remember the night. I play Quake 2 totally smashed a lot because it's fun. However, it is even more fun to let someone beat me drunk and then watch them cowar the next day when I offer them out for real. Typical modern day sly Quake 2 player with little pride or honor. I seriously doubt any other 'North American' players could beat me ether.
whirlingdervish	2011-01-19 21:06
	better yet, lets see a demo of you beating any of the better NA players at a duel while "legit". oh yeah.. it's never happened and you know it. You've never even gotten close. btw, last time we played when you were "legit" you got owned in a 2v2 and you've never had the balls to duel me before or after. the only times you ever played me after that were on the TS mutant server when you had your own uber shitty maps loaded (before they got removed) that had the RA and a BFG tucked into some little hidey hole only you knew of. Sadly, even with that advantage you got raped. BTW Gayzor, here's one of those "unimpressive NA players" raping your bitch ass while you walled and aimbotted and he did it on a euro server so you couldn't even cry ping: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=9382.0 please enlighten us some more about how great you are at q2 and while you're at it, say hi to Vital and Killah both of which you effectively got forced AC on tastyspleen just by associating with them. ^ remember that people, if you want to play in NA, don't be seen in public with this douchebag. Edited: 2011-01-20 18:44
Xian	2011-01-19 20:54
	http://xprojects.webs.com/ac.rar yea, whining gaywish, photo shop my demos please with r1q2 and aprq2 with two different loaded aimbot on anticheat server. aclist is also typed in console so i would love to see u explain it. Edited: 2011-01-19 20:57
Xian	2011-01-19 20:43
	wtf, dont think i am stupid enough to share any of my undetected hacks, with rich or anyone else. also, mirr losing to reaper, what a fucking joke. anyway, mirr is better than reaper and i am better than reaper, and much better than u also since u refuse to play me, or vital and always making up excuses like we would be waste of playtime. usa players dont impress me or anyone else, even someone like me have beated most of the better usa players in duel legit that would stomp u. Edited: 2011-01-19 20:56
whirlingdervish	2011-01-19 20:38
	apparently my custom conback rapes yours. wouldn't be the first time I was better than you at something. I can make screenies using apr too. Similar steps required, except on one, you take the shot in realtime and then again off the demo with your hacks loaded, then clip them together. when you put in aclist in the console you wont be moving so it wouldnt be that hard to match up the screeny with the one you make later now would it? Using photoshop it's even easier and it would look more legit because I could overlay the hack image over the real one exactly and show the supposed wallhack right thru the trans console. Edited: 2011-01-19 20:40
Xian	2011-01-19 20:18
	mm, nice, whining gaywish, but i still win since my console are transparent and my aclist is in middle of an uncleared screenie. also, its not as easy to edit and make it look real as ur screenies with a nice black background. Edited: 2011-01-19 20:22
whirlingdervish	2011-01-19 19:29
	gayzor says "ur screenies doesnt show u actually type aclist." Now it does: http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3384/omgihackedac2.png 2 seconds in ms paint. Woo sparkly magic! Instead of screenshots that a 10 year old could doctor up, post your hacks. Lets see some actual working files. According to you, you're a big fancy hacker so you should have no trouble making something to replace your hacks after r1ch gets a copy, like he has with all your other crap due to your own stupidity, and blocks it. Although... according to you, you also do not suck horribly at quake 2 to the point where even your e-friends will tell complete strangers that they let you use an aimbot to play them because you suck so very badly. http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=15430.0 Btw, "delita" how'd you like getting beaten by a mediocre NA dueler on your best map over the holidays? Reaper 1 BullshitEuro 0 Edited: 2011-01-19 19:35
Delita	2011-01-19 18:08
	Xian 1 - 0 WhirlingWiener
Xian	2011-01-19 18:06
	http://xprojects.webs.com/ac_4.jpg http://xprojects.webs.com/ac_6.jpg well, my screenie number one shows i record a demo, and second screenie shows me talking to them. any more tries to prove to everyone that my screenis are not real? Edited: 2011-01-19 18:07
Xian	2011-01-19 17:54
	mm, yea, nice try gaywish, but ur screenies doesnt show u actually type aclist. and, also see my first screenie that shows i entered server. Edited: 2011-01-19 17:56
whirlingdervish	2011-01-18 18:51
	btw, here's how you make a screenshot of wallhacks working with anticheat: http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5817/razorisanewb.png http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4044/omgihackedac.png LOOK I HACKED R1Q2!!! All it took was to make a demo on an ac enabled server, put aclist in console a few times and then watch the demo with the badsoul gl wallhack and snap pics. AMAZING. Edited: 2011-01-18 19:25
whirlingdervish	2011-01-14 20:39
	just because your IP finally changed enough to get into an AC server with AC, it doesn't mean you're some magical hacker. r1ch now has you logged and your bitchass wallhack client, and pretty much anyone with half a grain of sense has banned your entire ISP. thanks for the screeny idiot. BTW, That screenie shows APRQ2, which should be blocked by most admins who are paying attention, as it has been in euroq2l for this very reason. It's not r1q2 which he claims he's hacked. I'm willing to bet it doesn't work on a server running the visibility check either.
Xian	2011-01-14 19:27
	http://xprojects.webs.com/aac.jpg http://xprojects.webs.com/aac_2.jpg new screenies, snapped today in ac enabled server and aclist is typed in console. Edited: 2011-01-14 19:34
whirlingdervish	2011-01-14 17:55
	arch, he's already given out his hacks to more than 5 different NA players and a few euro ones and they were caught and admitted it. like so: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=11802.0 he runs a forum at http://q2xiit.tk/ with the specific purpose of collecting and handing out quake 2 hacks to active players. he just tried 2 days ago to get into multiple AC server across europe to test which of his hacks will get him kicked http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=90.232.164.176&t=c allowing him to speak here whenever he wants is the same as providing him a billboard on which he can advertise his hacks and a private means to communicate with the players here and spam them with links to cheats. (same thing he did on Tastyspleen until he got the axe) Edited: 2011-01-14 17:57
arch^	2011-01-14 00:58
	I think razor should be banned on the q2 servers, but it's still the admin's choice. I can start a server now and ppl can play on it, and I don't need to ban everyone that you or anyone else tells me to. To remove his acces to the player base sounds a bit too harsh! I don't think that he is the cause of other players cheating. And it would still be the fault of the cheating player. Writing is allowed, cheating is not.
whirlingdervish	2011-01-10 11:56
	sofiene I am not saying "there is no cheats that can be used in the presence of the AC". Check my posts for confirmation that I have, in fact, not said that. What I AM saying is that if the players you've seen "hacking" were forced to use AC AND the server admin knows what they are doing, the chances of those players showing up with hacks are MUCH smaller, and the chances that they'll be able to use that cheat for very long, are even smaller than that. Nobody can stop all hacks 100% of the time. No hard coded software solution will ever be able to completely stop all forms of hacking forever. This is common knowledge. Are you attempting to prove that I am somehow lying by putting words in my mouth that are not and will never be true? As for your stated knowledge that so many players are hacking on AC servers, lets see some demos showing AC valid that represent actual threats that AC does not block already. If they aren't showing up AC valid, then it doesn't matter if AC is in place. It can't stop anyone until specific clients and AC usage are forced on them. example #1: [img]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7147/quake017.png[/img] If the server admin didn't bother to set up file checks that correctly check for all of the models that can be used to create a spiked model, then of course people can get in, and appear AC valid, while actually using spiked models that circumvent the nonexistent file checks. This same point is true of all hacks. (if you aren't looking you won't find them) This is why I mention the usage of .md3 models. If nobody is checking the .md3 replacements, people like this scummy little razor kid will make their spiked models in .md3 and get around the most common file checks on servers AND APPEAR AC VALID TO PEOPLE WHO DONT KNOW BETTER. I've blocked all .md3 model usage to circumvent this workaround, and very few others have, so I'd love for you to highlight for me the IP addresses of NA servers that are more strict than mine where people are regularly using cheats. Short of forcing AC on everyone and fucking over all of the linux and mac people, mine are very strict in terms of how many people have forced AC, how many different q2 clients are blocked from use, and how many files are checked on the actual AC users. On top of that, any silly alias I see who uses windows gets forced AC right off the bat, just to make sure they aren't some kiddie using a proxy to hide who they are so they can skate by without AC for a while. I check my logs daily, and I'm available in irc whenever someone thinks there is a hacker on my servers and wants to report it. THAT IS ABOUT AS TIGHT A SHIP AS YOU CAN RUN IN Q2. There is no software replacement for having an admin with their head out of their ass. If you expect some 100% foolproof solution to cheating that doesn't require some time and thought by the server admin, then you'll be waiting a VERY long time. If you have CREDIBLE evidence of a hack that bypasses AC, give it to r1ch so he can stop it from happening or investigate the players in question. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, and contrary to what you've been told by him, razor's shit is mostly blocked, except for the hacks that HE CANT EVEN GET ONTO AC SERVERS TO TEST by his own admission. That should lead anyone who runs an AC server to one very important conclusion: Don't let anyone who's regularly in contact with Razor onto your servers without forcing AC on them, and when they do play, spectate them and make demos. Razor's going to continue to try to dupe people into testing hacks for him to see if they make it past AC, since he can't even do it himself. How would he accomplish the feat otherwise? This is why I implore you to remove his access to the base of users here and his ability to contact your player base using your resources. If you want q2scene affiliated servers to have less hackers on them, remove Razor from any means that you are providing to spread his disease of stupidity to others. Edited: 2011-01-10 15:39
brikete	2011-01-09 04:15
	Reading your, sofiene, posts, it looks like everybody is cheating. As much as i played, i have never seen cheaters in years. If somebody hit you 5-7 times in a row with railgun, that shows how weak your movement is. If you meet a cheater, and can't win against him, ask yourself, if you are good enough to be on the server. Human got more power then any kind of cheats (well, ye, except those, who is 2 in one: speedbot and aimbot) Overall, the problem is you, sofiene, not the cheaters. Play against defined players, and enjoy your trip, even you gonna get raped worse than playing against cheaters.
sofiene	2011-01-08 20:13
	whirlingdervish,you are saying that there is no cheats that can be used in the presence of the AC (admins be strict in there servers),but i have seen,played with and watched alot of players that are in anticheat servers and are using aimbot and wallhack,and the servers are more strict then yours,so how do you explaine that ? -also,you said that some clients are not valid cause of .md3,to tell you,it is the admin that define wich models are valid (.md3 or .md2 ) so it is up-to the admin -also,what i constated,that you are saying that NA servers (most of them) are empty with cheaters and no-one can by-pass the AC,but that it wrong,i have seen alot of cheaters in TS (dm,vanilla,tourney4 and irtdm),so, AC is still doing his job in TS ? -also,if you dont know,razor is still playing in TS AC is still doing his job ? i dont think so
Bobek	2011-01-08 14:42
	Actually I think this whole post is useless. You just summarise obvious reality which was already discussed so many times.
Xian	2011-01-08 13:46
	http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590 http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=601 yo, some other links and like mirr said, its on topic. Edited: 2011-01-08 13:47
Delita	2011-01-08 13:46
	Why Bobek? This is a post about hackers and Anticheat Clients.
Bobek	2011-01-08 13:27
	Take this "hax conversation" to some IRC channel pls. Anyway I don't give a fuck about cheaters. I play almost official games only and I have to say that there is the best anticheat ever - spectators, like: http://q2scene.net/euroq2l/index.php?op=com&id=2420. Edited: 2011-01-08 13:28
Xian	2011-01-08 13:11
	yea, whining gaywish, ur little rich client with ur checks isnt trust worthy anymore and i wont send real stuff anymore but u also still try and cover it up with ur old bullshit. btw, if u knew shit as u say u would also know that tsearch is not detected by ac but it will not work after anticheat is loaded since it will hide ur process. its not a program i use anyway so it doesnt bother me at all if anticheat picks it up or not. and another thing, that is funny, is how u talk like u know shit like u say i cant get in to servers like ts, and how i still use modified models with apr and aimbot cheats that look for colors but i have also left this shit behind me bc its not needed anymore since i now use real stuff. Edited: 2011-01-08 13:37
Delita	2011-01-08 12:40
	I didn't say you are a cheater but I do have some suspicions about you!
DM	2011-01-08 11:56
	Delita still thinks that I am cheater
Delita	2011-01-08 10:10
	So what have you told us whirlingdervish. - That I've never been to a lan with competent 'Pro' players. OK, 1. How would you know this and 2. define Pro. - That Razor doesn't know shit about hacks. Well I have logs, screenshots, youtube videos and demos that prove otherwise. On a second note to that, I've actually seen a clip of an aimbot that is very hard to detect. Show's how easy it is for people to get away with hacking now days. - I do not have a very impressive grasp of English. Well unfortunately for you cheese dick. I am English so I guess I do. - Anyone with a good aim isn't always hacking. Well that's a no brainer. Even I have a relatively decent aim and can pull off suspicious acts at times. But I have a good reason for it, not players who have played for 3 years and still use Mouse2 as jump. - You said you know a lot about 'hacks' not hax, Mr. Impressive English. Well I don't see a lot that proves that. Not to mention I've heard a lot of people in the past say the American servers are riddled with hackers. Infact every time I used to play there I would get accused of hacking so I guess it's a common problem. So you haven't told us anything really have you. You have just gone on a typical offensive rant like everyone does against me or Razor. Give up, you're failing. Edited: 2011-01-08 10:39
whirlingdervish	2011-01-07 20:12
	it all comes down to how strict the server admin wants to be with their ac protected server, and how well they've configured the server itself using something like q2admin and a strict list of cvar and userinfo settings. I could technically set up my servers to only allow anticheat valid players using r1q2 or q2pro* to connect, and only then if they had entirely stock resources for the game including skins. This would severely limit player traffic tho, since anyone not on a PC cant use AC and everyone likes brightskins, so I allow for custom skins, just no custom models or sounds that would give an advantage. Blocking custom skins would break pretty much the only thing that razor has ever gotten to work with valid ac on a server with decent checks, which is the color based aimbot code that he copy/pasted from someone elses hack for a newer game. Fortunately this aimbot was very very obvious to the naked eye so it's a non issue if there's a server admin around and players who are paying attention and know how to contact the aforementioned admin. All of the people who use brightskins would be super pissed if every server admin had to use this method to keep razor and his trash out, but it's very simple to do. If he pushes his luck more of them will, and less of you will be allowed to use custom resources, so think on that before you go around buddying up with him. He will do nothing for you but get you in trouble and ruin the q2 experience for everyone else. He's already done it to himself by resorting to hacking instead of developing his own abilities, so he won't mind either way. * (egl and apr both allow for .md3 model usage which razor uses to try to sneak spiked models past people's file checks on servers where the admin hasn't thought of this)
TeiOch	2011-01-07 20:02
	So apparently AC DOES work if the server admins knows how to set it up correctly..?
TeiOch	2011-01-07 20:00
	whirlingdervish: man , word up! Truth is Trivial
whirlingdervish	2011-01-07 19:44
	apparently you've never been to a LAN with a competent pro player. that doesn't mean anyone with good aim is hacking. as for your assumption that razor "knows about hax" you could not be much closer to completely wrong. Razor knows how to use google. Thats about it. The vast majority of the hax that he claims to have made for q2 are repacked shit from q3, old hacks that he gathered up, or copy/pasted aimbot/wallhack code and hex editted ratbots that SOMEONE ELSE MADE and he just fiddled with to get past version checks. He can't get most of his bullshit past anticheat because he's not even allowed to run an anticheat server, which I've been doing for some time now. he doesn't know dick about AC and most of his attempts to circumvent it were shots in the dark that got him caught. I know a great deal about the available hacks for Q2 and how to defeat or nueter them and that would be why my server which you probably can't even get onto due to nonstock sounds and models, is one of the most secure in north america. Apparently, you also do not have a very impressive grasp of english. The fact that you talk to razor would mean that you do have a relationship with him. The fact that you would even say something as stupid as the following, makes me think that you talk to him quite a bit. The only people who are fooled into thinking that Kimpis is RIGHT, are idiots and the people that he talks to EVERY DAY (who tend to also be idiots): "Infact it's players like me and Razor that get ridiculed for being correct" You get ridiculed for being a loud mouth who isn't very good and who makes assinine claims to the contrary. It's not because you are right about anything. Edited: 2011-01-07 19:47
Delita	2011-01-07 14:48
	It's the ignorant people that consider me a clown. I don't have any relationship with Razor, I just speak to him about the possible hacks lurking around in Quake 2 and the ignorant morons like yourself who actually think people have super human aims like that. Razor is someone who knows about hacks. He may not be innocent himself and he admit hes used them before but truth is he knows more about them than you or any of your other little minions, therefore his word is valid. On a second note, you have done nothing but swing abuse and ridicule like the typical brainless ass wipes in the Q2 Scene. Incapable of forging a decent argument. You base me as a clown on what? That I am correct about things in Quake 2. I'm not? You saying someone who has played probably 3 times longer than you doesn't know? Why don't you go and tell Stephen Hawking he doesn't know anything about Physics while you're at it you ignorant cunt. And no, I have never used a hack in my life and never will. Quake 2 is like an ever changing Rome that lost it's glory because of deluded irrational illogical nerds like yourself.
whirlingdervish	2011-01-07 14:07
	again with the clown? lol I guess I'm not the only one who thinks you are nothing more than a mouthy clown. I wasn't quoting anyone, just drawing a conclusion from the way you come off. Good job on making your relationship with razor public. I'm sure everyone will trust you bunches now. btw, checked my server logs. you didn't show up to back up your assertion that razor has working hax that are released to the public and which get around a correctly configured ac protected server and show ac valid. does he not trust you with his hacks, or do they not exist? the world may never know, but they will know that you hang out with a guy who was banned from pretty much every american q2 server and most of our irc channels for giving hacks to everyone he talked to on irc and msn. btw, there's not a shred of you "outdoing" me anywhere in this comments thread. You haven't put forward anything in terms of evidence and all you've done is spout your ignorant opinions. Edited: 2011-01-07 14:12
Delita	2011-01-07 13:12
	Oh the clown comment again. Strange, never used to hear this comment years ago back when good players who know 'anything' about Quake 2 played. Kinda tells you something eh? Well this clown knows a hell of a lot more about Quake 2 than you Mr American. How does it feel to be out done by a clown? I believe he's right. Infact it's players like me and Razor that get ridiculed for being correct. Others don't wanna know and take a blind eye to it even though they know we are right. Wake the fuck up and smell the coffee you beginner.
whirlingdervish	2011-01-07 12:02
	the idiocy posted below is the main reason for this thread even existing. You've all probably heard razor run his mouth about cheats so much that you might actually believe a word he says. Get him out of here and there will be less baseless paranoia from people who, in fact, do not know much about quake 2 or cheats. razor would love you all to believe he's smart enough to write code and develop his own hax and that this represents some major threat to q2. Thankfully, he's not all that sharp, he's not capable of doing much other than getting others caught, and when it comes down to it, even his best efforts at crafting an aimbot were completely obvious to the naked eye, and they're blockable by anticheat if a server admin knows what they are doing. All his talk about memory injection is just bluster because he thinks tsearch is just super cool. It's also detectable. Any form of hooking the game's memory is detectable. Short of shoving fake input to the client, he can't do shit, and even then, it makes an aimbot that looks even more inhuman than anything frank ever released. He knows this, I know this, and he's just hoping that you'll believe him and lots of server admins will stop using anticheat which actually does stop him dead in his tracks the vast majority of the time. His goal is to increase the number of active servers that he can cheat on, and that is the single greatest way to accomplish the feat, since he's incapable of making a cheat that doesn't get him caught. @delita - you've played since 98 and all you've earned is a reputation as a fucking clown. If you did know a thing about q2, you'd know that anyone who talks to razor on a daily basis should be seen as VERY SUSPECT when it comes to the use of cheats in quake 2. It's been shown fairly conclusively that anyone who spends any amount of time with that kid will eventually show up with spiked models and a wallhack that he's using them to test. He's done this repeatedly in NA where he convinced some dumb clown via msn messenger to try out his supposedly undetectable hax and got them caught. I hope you get a lot out of your relationship with a known hacking scriptkiddie. @ razor - last time we played you got stomped. you refused to play me every time after that without trying to add some ridiculous conditions that allowed you to try to use cheats to get a win. Newsflash newb, nobody is going to play you on some server in sweden where there isn't anticheat running. You aren't good, and considering how long you've been cheating your "skills" could only have gotten even worse by now.
Delita	2011-01-07 09:51
	Whirlingdervish, whoever the hell you are. I know Xian is Razor, I speak to him daily on IRC about the hackers in Quake 2. Yes he hacks but also he discovers that R1Q2 is very hackable and he's right. He has proof. This is nothing to do with Razor hacking though or me being better than Purri. It has to do with R1Q2, Hackers and the Q2Scene in general. Oh and for the record, I've played Quake 2 since November of 1998. So I think I know a little bit about it? Edited: 2011-01-07 09:54
Xian	2011-01-07 09:31
	http://xprojects.webs.com/ac.rar im quoting this link once again and its old stuff like wallhack, zbot and ratbot rehacked by me and is used and recorded on public anticheat servers. it will also bypass ur so called checks and i have not shared it with anyone. Edited: 2011-01-07 09:36
Xian	2011-01-07 09:13
	yea, whining gaywish, about my nicks, everyone know who i am and what nicks i play with and what i have done so get off my dick. btw, when it comes to to skill both me and mirr would rape u with ez in tdm and probably insta too while we talk. and ur file checks is something i laugh at bc how will ur server that everyone rapes u on detect stuff injected in memory? what i said in my previous post is that some players are in denial when it comes to ac being hacked, bc how can u say it cant be hacked but u are saying previous anticheats could, or are u once again failing to backup ur claims that anticheat is not hacked? Edited: 2011-01-07 09:14
whirlingdervish	2011-01-06 20:22
	if you're so concerned about cheaters, get this Xian newbie off of q2scene. he IS razor, and all he ever does is try to insinuate himself into q2 communities and hand out his newbie hax the vast majority of which will not work on an anticheat server where the client is forced to use anticheat and where the admins have enforced a strict file white list using AC. for the record, nocheat didn't detect all cheats. It just detected that you were using nocheat and had stock resources and it only did that for a short while. there were always ways to get around it, just as there will always be ways to get around any form of anticheat solution. the best defense against hackers is having server admins who know what they are looking for, and who are actually around on a regular basis, AND the liberal use of an anticheat solution like the one that r1ch manages. this can be seen on Tastyspleen, the NA community where razor is unable to play anymore no matter how many proxied boxes he tries to find to tunnel through. it's true that people do show up there hacking, just like any q2 servers, but they are usually caught quite quickly by the active admin staff and the players who know what they are looking for, and generally they don't come back after they get forced AC. quote from razor = "btw, mirr is right when he accuse some ppl for inhuman aim, bc i have seen it myself, like when ppl still are able to rail or chain u even if u move around." ^ this is the opinion of a player who is SO BAD AT Q2 that he uses an aimbot and wallhack and then boasts IF he actually beats someone (many have raped him while he was hacking) Some people actually do have ridiculous aim. It's called practice, skill and coordination, and anyone who has played q2 for more than a couple years and isnt a hacking newbie who's banned from most servers has probably met quite a few of them in their day. Q2scene has seen many of them over the years. @ delita (no matter what you claim you aren't on purri's level newb) : Razor hasn't proven that he can do anything other than copy/paste someone's code who made an aimbot for another game and get it to work just well enough to get himself and others caught with it. R1ch had his ass within a week, with damning evidence and logs to back it up. If you're so sure his stuff works, load it up and try to get into my server in NA. 74.86.171.204:27910 I'll smile when you get popped. Edited: 2011-01-06 20:28
Delita	2011-01-06 13:05
	Cent, Quake 2 is riddled with hackers now days. I see almost every time I enter a server now. Razors proved that R1Q2 doesn't work very effectively and I've seen lots of hackers myself with my own eyes. It may stop a few newbies from using aimbots and wallhacks but it won't stop those who research it a bit and figure out how to get round it. Lot of Pols and Russians hack, no doubt liths too.
centaurius	2011-01-06 11:41
	I believe R1CH was being ironic... as you can see from stats that AC detects those. If u cant get cheats passing PROPERLY through AC server..what should a cheater do? MAybe try to bring down the project by itself (including the coder)... making other believe it doesnt work at all. Everyone nowadays playing quake2 has played others FPS for sure. Of course nothing is foolproof (tell me a game online that is?) however some people keep trying to prevent and do what they can to improve game trhough web.
sofiene	2011-01-05 14:00
	the problem is with the anticheat,not r1q2,i dont use r1q2 (cause of my low fps) but it is a very good client,so,what we need (also what you ( R1CH)) have to do/think about is a new anticheat (a very good up-date or even,a new one) Edited: 2011-01-06 10:26
Delita	2011-01-05 12:44
	Even if R1Q2 doesn't prevent cheaters, it is still a good client R1CH.
R1CH	2011-01-05 05:06
	http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=90.234.216.147&t=c http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=213.64.98.190&t=c http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=90.234.208.61&t=c http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=90.234.213.64&t=c http://acstats.r1.cx/?ip=90.234.204.129&t=c Yep anticheat definitely not working, time to shut it down I guess .
Xian	2011-01-04 17:33
	btw, mirr is right when he accuse some ppl for inhuman aim, bc i have seen it myself, like when ppl still are able to rail or chain u even if u move around. some americans like from ts are in denial that any cheats actually exist for anticheat bc they trust it too much and therefore some ppl might as well get away with it bc anticheat said they were legit, but i say its just a false sense of security of trusting a software too much bc anything can get hacked. Edited: 2011-01-04 17:48
Xian	2011-01-04 16:35
	http://xprojects.webs.com/ac.rar wh, aimbot used with both aprq2 and r1q2 so nothing new, but its pretty funny when ppl think stuff are blocked bc they are just fooling themselves if they think so. btw, and so far i know, color aimbots is still not blocked, so anyone could be using them with any client and on any server they wanted and get away with it. about nocheat, all versions was hacked by zaltekk to simulate nocheat code so u could use frk and get away with it on nocheat servers. my stuff in those screenies and demos is old detected stuff like zbot, ratbot and some old wallhack that i spent some time changing stuff and voila, magical bypass and worked on any protected server and it was hacked. Edited: 2011-01-04 17:47
TeiOch	2011-01-04 15:43
	Very challenging and topical article! Nicely written too sof! It was about time someone stepped forward and reminded us all about the problematic situation we have today on the servers causing by cheating ppl. We had NoCheat, we "had" AC (yes in a sense I think it is dead)....we need a new solution....an improved anti cheat system. Maybe rich can make smth new and better (?) or should another step into his shoes and close the ongoing issues? I don't have any good answers myself right now, but we better stop ignoring the situation and start deal with it as soon as possible. Mirr: yes, I kinda agree with you. Many players you cannot trust these days. But i think generally the very top notch players do not cheat....and I mean the best of the best players. Provi..Purri..Damiah..David..etc... they cheat? I humbly don't think so! And one thing is for sure....if Purri is caught on cheating (with real proofs and not some false statements) - I will quit q2 - period! But i have absolutely no worries about that since I believe he is like me: would never use any kind of cheats beCause it would go against his very own core of his human nature!
Delita	2011-01-04 11:09
	No anti-cheats will totally stop hackers. People will crack them pretty fast then publish findings, it will spread, more hacks will be created based on the known flaws and then people will capitalize on it. What can be made can be un-made and no one can do a damn thing about it. I personally find it hard to trust anyone in Quake 2 anymore and I am now very suspicious of a lot of players.
rl	2011-01-04 04:34
	http://nofake.planetquake.pl/?lang=en
centaurius	2011-01-03 14:45
	APRq2 client provived bypassing some cheats... that client has been banned in euroq2l at least. The latest r1q2 wh, if i recall properly was detected months ago.

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^^^

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