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	NDML 9 IRC: #ndml Sign ups: off Transfers: yes Players limit: 15 User's clans: off

NDML 9 canceled

2009-01-23 03:21 | Gravgon

Like I said in an earlier comment, there will be a proper NDML or there won't be one. With only 8 teams signed up it's impossible to run a season which meets the usual quality standards of this league.

The ninth season of NDML will be held when the activity in Q2 allows more countries to gather a team and play.

Big thanks and apologies to the teams that had signed up.

Comments

bas'ik	2010-02-10 03:23
	we wanna NDML!!!
sovet	2010-02-01 17:19
	No NDML #9/#10 then?
bas'ik	2010-01-13 03:28
	arch sux
arch^	2010-01-06 08:13
	NDML sucks.
sovet	2010-01-04 15:25
	Sigh, I already forgot that there was no NDML last year. Wonder what is going to happen this year? If no NDML for 2 seasons in a row = Quake2 truly dying.
Baquet	2009-06-25 13:52
	NDML canceled?? =/
hauti	2009-03-03 05:00
	atleast make a allstar game ! ;-)
wision	2009-02-08 08:36
	there you go: http://q2scene.net/euroq2l/
[2c]cubbi	2009-02-08 01:42
	Why not create another league consisting of multiple teams per country? At least it is activity esp for those who want to play, and for those of us who have no scene and enjoy watching the demos. New league for team play would be my suggestion.
rl	2009-02-07 07:30
	ke?
NiGGY	2009-02-06 08:24
	if admins decide to start this league it will begin in a week or two... and with 9 matches and schedules it will end in 2 or 3 month or and while groupstage ends it's like April or May ... With finals this league will end in June and do you think that this national teams will play in June? thats why i said to start after summerbreak...
rl	2009-02-05 11:56
	That's not the point. Saying "after summerbreak" you meant september/october 2009, right?
NiGGY	2009-02-05 09:18
	@ rl it doesnt matter which day is it... we(tur) can play in all times... doesnt matter which players are playing for us may in next month our squad will be worst ever but we can play in this league just for fun and be a part of that big/great organizasion... but i am not sure for other country's that can play...if most of half matches can be w/o, there is no reason to start this league...
rl	2009-02-05 05:25
	@niggy, I'm not sure if you know what calendar is, but it's 5th february today...
st24	2009-02-05 00:48
	old horse is dying....and dont need to argue look at facts
amb	2009-02-04 05:34
	CCCP wana sign up
NiGGY	2009-02-03 12:09
	may be after summerbreak ndml will be the first league that will start...
Cheimera	2009-02-02 12:11
	optimizer is right, its to late to start it now
stay()ut	2009-02-02 06:09
	Gravgon, please don't make me laugh when you say: (bla bla bla)... Check the QW scene for an example of what I'm saying. Oh wait, you already said that & I'm already laughing, ops. Really, you want to say that QW scene has only 1 or 2 leagues going on?! Please, take a minute and guess again. You are damn wrong. QW scene is way more (many good words) than this q2 scene seems to becomed/is.. And thats sad... kind of... little bit. Anyway, QW has loads of tournaments: QDL (1on1), EQL (4on4), NQR, Kenya maps, ownage (1on1).. I can go on literarly forever. HEY! It has even tournaments for rookies only! Namely Ignition. And you are telling us/me that QW has only few leagues, haha. Gimme a break. I hope your skiing went well, sad that q2 scene doesn't seem to go the same way.
optimizer	2009-02-01 13:05
	i'd say the participated amount of teams goes up and down, couple of seasons ago it was some kind of a record with signed up countries, now its down again to some kind of all time low. I still think that ndml should be run during the first (maybe there should also just be ONE not one good and one crappy) season of eq2l in oct-dec when the activity is at its top. Starting the league now will make it end somewhere in april, if we're lucky. Usually, alot of players disapear during april/may and the quality of the remaining matches tend to be pretty shitty, if there will be any games at all or just another w/o-fest. I don't see why we should rush into a such a prestigous and exciting league as ndml is, its already february. A break with no ndml won't kill the scene, it will make countries more hungry to play next time and sign up IN TIME. But thats just my five cents. Edited: 2009-02-01 13:09
Mad Regent	2009-02-01 12:14
	UK can have a squad. Seems to be a lot of new Uk players coming on the scene lately... even if they are beginners it's still good to see fresh meat for the grinder!
sovet	2009-02-01 07:24
	But in light of this logic ("keeping the scene alive no matter what" ), we are unforunately forced to rely on the willingness of the signed clan. Like you said, if you get 10 clans and can have a 2-small-group league, then we should run... but all of that if those teams are active. The problem here is not "will some team get raped or not" (in our "uneven" scene this is pretty much the standard case), but will all the teams play their matches when needed. I agree, w/os are useless, but if we have a small amount of teams signed and they claim that they WANT and WILL play their games, we should run it (it's somewhat a reflection of your own opinion from my perspective). Edited: 2009-02-01 07:26
marraqy	2009-02-01 06:44

Gravgon	2009-02-01 05:01
	If the teams are really up to play even with a one-group layout, of course there's no problem to run it. But when I picture myself the possible matches of this league, I'm affraid it's gonna turn into a big bore where people play just for the sake of wearing their fancy national team tags. They might enjoy it for 1 or 2 matches but then they'll have to be reminded over and over to schedule/play their games. With 10 _active_ teams it's possible to make 2 groups and have a good league, we're at 9 so far. I'm asking the captains of all these teams if they're really ready to play actively in this league even with a 1-group-layout. Edit: for the people who bring the "keep the scene alive" argument: you don't run a league with this goal in mind, you run a league with the goal of having nice matches and a tense competition. If this goal is achieved, then YES, it "keeps the scene alive" but if you run leagues just because it sounds nice that Q2 still have many leagues, it's pointless. It's better to have 1 very good and active league than 10 "w/o" leagues that spread over too many months and make people tired... IMO! Check the QW scene for an example of what I'm saying. Edited: 2009-02-01 05:10
careem	2009-01-30 15:42
	Slovenia want to signup! This make 9 teams!
hauti	2009-01-30 03:23
	agree with colt
Cheimera	2009-01-25 10:42
	sovet is right, ask the captains of each team what they think. Its really up to them imo, not even the scene, but the clans participating.
kolt	2009-01-25 06:15
	Wierd decision. Q2 scene is getting smaller and smaller and i dont know what are u(ndml crew) waiting for. The scene wont get bigger especially if u cancel such a league. No ndml = no great games = no demos = smaller scene.
sovet	2009-01-24 15:15
	Grav, I agree with your notion about the game quality. Alas, the quality, when taken into consideration, should (or even must) be defined with the context that quality is the part of. I see, this scene is going to be divided in two (the proportion of each supporting part is yet unclear): one part will consider that the prestige is defined with the context (we go on with the league no matter what, getting as much as we can get); the opponents (like yourself) will define prestige with absolute rules (meaning that the league will be run only if it meets certain criterion). In my opinion, the best solution to this problem is not only your own call (since it's not really a dictatorship), but a consideration of the opinion of the rest of the community. * What do the captains and players of the signed up teams think about this? Are they willing to participate in NDML #9 with these 8 teams only? * What does the rest of the community think (a general poll to suffice the unkown)? * Are the rest of the crew up for what it could be, if we never meet those absolute rules? Edited: 2009-01-24 15:17
goat	2009-01-24 09:37
	i agree with "it's better to have a small league than no league". there propably won't be more teams than 8-9 so u wanna say that ndml #8 was the last one ? 8 quite active teams signed up so there wouldn't be many w/o's i guess. it is still better than having 18 teams and 1/3 w/o's. i hope u'll change ur mind Edited: 2009-01-24 09:40
tosquey	2009-01-24 09:31
	I'll have to agree with gravgon when he says that quality = number of interesting matches you get. That's why Brazil won't participate anymore, all good players don't play anymore, so it would be pointless join a league where the squad wouldn't be able to be competitive in a single match. Despite the high ping games, I guess we've had lots of good matches with Brazil playing, we managed to win some matches and even maps against very good teams (EE and UKR) and that would be impossible nowadays. I just don't get how come the rest of euro teams can't gather up some good players and sign up a competitive teams as they did in the past seasons, that's the sad thing here. I was hoping for a new season, but with only 3 (maybe 4?) possibilities of good matches, it's not encouraging to run such a league (I know it sucks to keep begging for people to play their matches),
Werwolf	2009-01-24 07:02
	So, the reason of cancelation league is "I'm off to ski for a week" - Gravon
Putka	2009-01-24 05:20
	Enjoy the winter and dont play too much.
Muerte	2009-01-24 03:31
	maybe is time to clean this big ndml crew if players want to play why would be listen admin who is not even q2 player anymore i guess ndml could 'live' without Gravgon
Cheimera	2009-01-23 12:29
	I would say small league is alot better than no league. This could be the last NDML, who knows, dont waste it.
Gravgon	2009-01-23 10:53
	Quality has nothing to do with the skills of the teams. It's all about the number of interesting matches you can get. I find a match between two equally "low" skilled teams interesting. Also, it's easy to cry for this league to start but you're not the one who will go around begging people to play their matches. On these words, I'm off to ski for a week. Don't worry Muerte I'll bring back some good pics of me wasted for you
rl	2009-01-23 10:39
	So since quality > quantity, I guess there's no other way since there're only 3 good teams since...#1 season...Ofc it would better to have more countries but you can't force people to get a team and signup. So I guess sovet has the point. Looks like it's the only way to make this league attractive and possible to start...
Gravgon	2009-01-23 10:13
	Sovet you said the keyword yourself: prestigious. This league being high profile is the only thing that keeps it alive. Why do you think we had teams like Australia in the past? Do you think they signed up because they really wanted to play a bunch of matches with ping 300? No, they wanted to be a part of something. If NDML becomes a w/o and dropouts contest with the only interesting matches being swe vs pol vs fin, it will soon mean nothing to win it. Let's take an example: Spain... Sure I feel sorry for them because they haven't had a team for 5 seasons at least and it would have been nice to see them play. But on the other hand, with so few teams they will play only 1 or 2 truly enjoying game, and then that's it. They'll have taken part to a snorefest that doesn't reflect the real fun of NDML at all. To sum it up, I guess we can say for this particular league that quality is much more important than quantity.
optimizer	2009-01-23 09:38
	i'd said it was the right call, everyone will dissapear in two months anyway so the quality of those remaining matches will be shit. The only wrong thing about this is that you started the league too late, it should be run during the winter season of euroq2l.
sovet	2009-01-23 08:50
	Gravgon, these are your own words back from 2005/2006 I think, when I was getting an advice from you (remember, when I asked if I should recommend CB headdudes to cancel Q2 TDM league, since it was half-dead - low amount of signups, huge amount of w/os, me as a cup supervisor, admin, news writer - all in one), you told me: "Don't tell them that! It's better to have a small league than no league!" I did recommend to let that league be active for one more season, but then it was a disaster. My replacement (we won't tell the names) just quit without any warning and teams didn't reach even the playoffs. After that, the league was cancelled permanently, but that's another story. Here we have dedicated and active admins, and truly somewhat active teams. I think, when there comes time, that NDML will have 1-5 signups at most, we will realize by then, that Q2 time is really fading away, but at this moment 8 is quite a considerable amount to actually run small, but yet effective league. We can't really wait and hope that one day that number will grow larger. What if it never will? Or we have the same amount of teams next year? Until it's not below 6 or so, we can start with playoffs (double elimination for example). I hereby repeat your words: "It's better to have a small league, than no league!" P.S. An idea about more than one team from each country is not acceptable at all. The whole idea of NDML is to have representatives from a country to compete for one of the most prestigious tropheys. If a country does not have anyone to represent it, then they are not participating. If a country has a huge player base, then they are lucky to have a better selection. Edited: 2009-01-23 08:54
Jou	2009-01-23 08:26
	Well as visual_wind said it, there should be more than one team p/country (in example FIN, SWE, POL could quite easy make a 2nd squad), and the league would be "playable" in quantity. Though the problem is that this NDML provides the best players of each country, and that would really weaken any possibilities that the 2nd team could have any chance vs these three TOP-3 countries, or actually TOP-4 when you look at the Russian squad. But still, there would be a well-organized league for good teams to participate and match-up. I hope admins would take this possibility under consideration, especially when the q2scene is rapidly becoming smaller and smaller. (just look at season 2005 as stay_ut said) After thinking a while at my comment, I might add that the problem with 2nd squad NDML-stuff could easily brake out to be an w/o-league. Just a pointer. Edited: 2009-01-23 08:29
stay()ut	2009-01-23 08:16
	Gravgon: How do you understand 'proper ndml' & usual quality standards? What in the name of.. quad. You could atleast name it mini-ndml or something. You have teams that have signed up & are willing to play for their country! What more could you ask from the community than active players. I'm sure we both agree that time changes & so do people and its not 2005 you know, where there was 20+ teams.. And quality heh, .. what is it? Number of signup? Namely countries who have signed up? Frags? What?.. Sadly all I can say is pff..
visual_wind	2009-01-23 08:09
	Its time to allow more than 1 team from each country.
syanid	2009-01-23 07:37
	activity in q2 will increase if we skip one season? suuuuree.. Anyway team like brazil, as exotic it sounds to euros, is not so interesting to play against because of high pings, so nothing is lost if they don't sign up. UK is never going to have a team and I don't see ITA and POR teams to sign up either no matter how long you wait. Imo having 8 teams is already a nice achievement and should be enough to run the league through. Not running is much worse option.
rl	2009-01-23 06:37
	Atleast 12 teams is needed I think..
Aone	2009-01-23 06:19
	so lets play
Aone	2009-01-23 06:19
	I think 8 team is enought
NiGGY	2009-01-23 04:20
	so sad...

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