European Duel League

	Menu

	» News » Forum » Rules » Players » Awards » Schedule » All matches » Player stats » League stats » Articles » Polls » Crew » Users

	Tables

Profile

	Powered by

	Services

	» 2x2? » ADL » AmericaQ2L » Balkan 2v2 » BDL » BRDL » demosquad » Edge » EDL » EUROQ2L » Forum » gibblördag » JUMP » Kubus » NADL » NADML » NDML » NiDML » PTDL » Quake 2 » RDL » RDM » SSD » virtuosos

	Links

	» Tworzenie WWW

	Latest news

	2022-08-16 Season #20 2020-11-10 Start Playing! 2020-10-31 Season 19 Groups 2020-10-04 Season 19 Open 2019-12-20 Playoffs have started! 2019-10-21 Groups Set - Schedule ... 2019-10-17 Initial Groups - Peer ... 2019-09-26 Emails/Passwords

	Latest matches

	Info

	EDL #20 IRC: #EDL \| Demos: http://demos.q2players.org Sign ups: off

Opti - Turri update

2008-03-09 10:37 | syanid

Optimus

vs Turricane flag

game is forced to be replayed by admin decision. The game which was won by Optimus flag

3:0, was not played under a fair conditions. It was discovered later, that all Turricanes say_team messages (timers mostly) were seen by Optimus during all of the maps without Turricane knowing about it. Knowing your opponents every timing of an armor or a weapon is a huge advantage for a player and can be considered as a cheat. Optimus should have told Turricane or the admin of the game about seeing those binded messages, but he did not. The unfairness of this game and the unjustified advantage Optimus had from seeing the timing binds, is a reason that we admins decided, that the game must be replayed. The new deadline for this game is sunday 16th of march.

Comments

__d34d	2008-04-11 03:59
	Sum up votes from http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=descr&id=63153 and you'll have over 500
Jeo	2008-03-30 16:27
	I was really hoping for it. Shame theres is no way to bump this thread.
Gerdt	2008-03-29 20:27
	No 500 record?
AlexyeNov	2008-03-22 16:34
	http://q2scene.net/scene/index.php?op=com&id=1821
bas'ik	2008-03-21 15:04
	nrk The face on the avantar - it's my bro (junior)
AlexyeNov	2008-03-21 13:23
	Ok ppl. Peace now. Later...
nrk	2008-03-21 08:45
	HAHAHA nice one!! Don't worry, we are not a murders (c) bas`ik ) I love ur avantar really friendly face
OhYeah	2008-03-21 08:15
	I know, I was making a joke. I've actually been to St Petersburg, altough most of the time spent in Pavlovsk. It was nice, I liked the big wide streets and the Stalin-era massive stone-buildings. Definetely want to go back sometimes. And oh, they had the best melon ice-cream there!
bas'ik	2008-03-21 06:51
	OhYeah Leningrad is no more St Petersburg. Don't worry, we are not a murders waiting u at the Piter lan-paty Edited: 2008-03-21 06:52
ZeZar	2008-03-21 06:35
	Why can´t we be friends! why can´t we be friends! why can´t we be friends! why can´t we be friends! just like smash mouth sings
fr1daY	2008-03-20 18:36
	ok, leave 5 dollars to yourself and buy an icecream )
thaigo	2008-03-20 18:29
	fr1day, what money? The game ended 3-1 to optimus and u bet 3-0 and 2-1. So who's the dumbass
fr1daY	2008-03-20 18:19
	where is my money dumbass-thaigo?))))
fr1daY	2008-03-20 18:17
	RE! Turri didnt see ENEMY behind the stone under the water on dm1! It was cheatin from Opti's side! Think about it!
OhYeah	2008-03-20 16:51
	I just have to add something. It is really sad to see all this nationality bullshit from the Russian side of the story. Cmon, if someone makes a decision that is not 100% favourable to you, it does not mean that we are anti-Russian. Stop acting fucking childish, nobody gives a fuck if you're from Russia, France or South-Africa. Just behave like a normal person, respect admin decisions and don't threaten to beat up people who think differently than you ("omg when u coem to leningrad we will murdar u!". Yes, we're really scared now. We ain't 14 anymore here. Are you?
floyd	2008-03-20 10:32
	AMSTERDAAAAM! AMSTERDAM! AMSTERDAM, AMSTERDAM, AMSTERDAM!
Lmty	2008-03-19 17:50
	WUT!!
arch^	2008-03-19 17:23
	Nop I just wrote another comment. Worst player response ever. Edited: 2008-03-19 17:23
aGent	2008-03-19 11:58
	the worst admin decision ever :/ TOPIC CLOSED Edited: 2008-03-19 11:59
kolt	2008-03-19 11:32
	gogo cheimera make it 1000
shn	2008-03-19 11:15
	fr1day yes cheimera is trying to insult you, i think you and at least 7 of your mates need to defend your honour by writing countless posts here, and cheimera you do the same.
Jeo	2008-03-19 11:12
	I think Cheim is trying to take this to 500. =)
fr1daY	2008-03-19 10:54
	do you want to offend me?
Cheimera	2008-03-18 18:30
	fr1daY: you are not very smart are you
fr1daY	2008-03-18 17:39
	btw, it was my bet if u want to lose money bet on turri )
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-18 17:15
	i am ready to bet on thaigo's shaking hands
Cheimera	2008-03-18 15:33
	hahahah lol
careem	2008-03-18 14:56
	=>>>>
thaigo	2008-03-18 14:52
	I'll take that five dollar bet any day, since the game cannot end 2-1. Dumbass.
fr1daY	2008-03-18 12:16
	Its time to make a bet! Opti (Ru) vs Turri (Fi?) 10$ - 3 : 0 5$ - 2 : 1
fr1daY	2008-03-18 12:07
	:
CsLq2	2008-03-18 11:30
	Dahang, all your bases are belong to us btw it'll be nervous match
DaHanG	2008-03-18 10:19
	428 comments and counting? Seems like there's a lot of going on...
fpS	2008-03-18 09:03
	bas'ik, under table
bas'ik	2008-03-18 04:42
	hahah I have 44 cm in biceps, and what? And one of my friends has about 50 cm, other 56 cm LOL And we have nuclear weapon
floyd	2008-03-18 03:52
	Maybe we should measure Optimus' and Turricane's biceps and whoever has the biggest ones get to read the other player's timers????????????
AlexyeNov	2008-03-18 02:04
	so bas'ik > Thaigo !
rl	2008-03-17 15:46
	WHO CARES ABOUT THIS SHIT...? Apart from thaigo (who has 40 cm in biceps) and russians...
Gip5y	2008-03-17 15:11
	Finally Edited: 2008-03-17 15:12
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-17 14:08
	guyz. STOP TALKING SHIT! Optimus agreed to beat Turri one more time. But right now he has very bad internet connection and he asked to give him a time up to end of this week. Dear admin crew, let him show us that he can own Turri without any "special advantages" ))
Werwolf	2008-03-17 13:58
	shn, and freewin 4 PURRI?
shn	2008-03-17 13:10
	wo to both, case closed.
Ramses	2008-03-17 08:52
	coz turri was offline,no wo
shn	2008-03-17 06:58
	soo? what's the outline now? the game should've been played, it wasn't, so where's the wo?
shai	2008-03-17 05:28
	game over admins winz PS muzhiki, nu i her s nimi
AlexyeNov	2008-03-17 02:12
	17.03 now
dug-	2008-03-16 10:53
	rofl .. say_teen !
Cheimera	2008-03-16 10:07
	every singel game is played with say_teams. what a smart question
{42A}SERj	2008-03-16 09:42
	How many games were plyed whis say_teams? 50 ? 100 ??
floyd	2008-03-16 06:56
	Another outsider point of view: I think syanid and Gravgon summed up all reasonable arguments in their long posts. Even Gravgon, mild defender of the OptiMus-side, agrees that the game was not fair. According to him, the only mistake was the way the admins presented the case. Well, okay, let's say they did do that in a biased way. That's just a question of interpretation - fact nonetheless remains that the game was unfair and therefore should be replayed.
rzr	2008-03-16 06:16
	bred
Gip5y	2008-03-16 05:23
	If optimus can beat purri than i can rape damiah Anyway i want to see optimus vs turricane without these say_team's
nrk	2008-03-15 21:20
	omg what a big deal!! Opti won 3:0 and he afraids replay it!.. ffs it only proves that these say_team's help him, otherwise it wont be over the 400 comments. Some of u talking like opti would beat purri, oh cmon pls... Edited: 2008-03-15 21:22
zdufs	2008-03-15 19:32
	you are not serious
Gip5y	2008-03-15 18:39
	Yes this is historical but only for russian rzr good morning - "Knowing your opponents every timing of an armor or a weapon is a huge advantage for a player" Edited: 2008-03-15 18:42
AlexyeNov	2008-03-15 15:42
	Wrong , nrk. This topic is Historical ... delete it is a crime against comunity !
nrk	2008-03-15 15:06
	FFS ADMINS SHOULD DELETE THIS TOPIC ASP! The truth is out there (c) x-files
rzr	2008-03-15 14:48
	why only this game must be replayed? optiMus is only one?
shn	2008-03-15 11:32
	moar moaaar, don't let the epic thread die
v00	2008-03-15 11:07
	cheater!!!!!!! ::
zdufs	2008-03-15 10:57
	400 o//
zdufs	2008-03-15 10:57
	1 Edited: 2008-03-15 11:08
zdufs	2008-03-15 10:57
	2 Edited: 2008-03-15 11:08
zdufs	2008-03-15 10:57
	3 Edited: 2008-03-15 11:08
zdufs	2008-03-15 10:57
	4 Edited: 2008-03-15 11:08
thaigo	2008-03-15 10:32
	Ly, But first optimus needs to win turricane without seeing timers ;<
AlexyeNov	2008-03-15 09:53
	not right. Purri can lose on z3 and rdm7 vs Opti. But i not known maps where Turri can wins.
JONNY	2008-03-15 07:54
	well thought i should comment after the tedious task of reading most of the comments tbh when you get to a certain level (edl playoffs for example) any advantage no matter how slight, will prove massive! whether its ping advantage or the fact u can see the opponents timers,(therefore position?). so optimus you and your friends can demand u won fairly all you want, but the truth is you did have a MASSIVE advantage. although u claim you didnt read the messages you could have seen them and acted on them subconciously as the majority of your concentration was on the game... we aint saying you a bad guy dude...but if you beat turricane so easily the first time you should be able to do it again surely? i hope u do infact win and prove it wasnt a fluke! so just be a man, and play the game again! /SCREAMZ p.s i just realised who ever wins anyway is gonna be fragfood for Pujji Edited: 2008-03-15 08:55
Gravgon	2008-03-15 07:25
	Haha no I've already explained everything in my previous comments. People don't seem to understand it but I don't really care this is not my league and I'm not playing in it either
wision	2008-03-15 06:36
	but gravgon you know that everything cannot be covered by rules.. now i expect another bash on my head like last time, when i said the same thing on irc.
Praf	2008-03-15 06:33
	OMG, just play the game already, this is not going anywhere... no point in blabbing and blabbing.....the decision wont be changed, so opti no better choice for ya Edited: 2008-03-15 06:34
Gravgon	2008-03-15 06:14
	The difference here is that the line between legal and illegal has not been broken since nothing in the rules stated it.
jay_bee	2008-03-15 05:30
	oh yeah, let's continue the analogy the car owner maybe making a mistake gave his own car to someone badly speaking english. and maybe he is very kind or very rich or both, who knows, and the main thing - who cares? yup, better care. but the guilt seems very disputable
syanid	2008-03-15 04:28
	In this car comparison (which owns btw!) the car would have already been stolen, but the damage the drunk driver does, depends on the traffic conditions which are variable on every road. Or you can say that the car door was already lockpicked and the thief was inside, but how many valuable objects there are and how much he steals stuff from there depends on the thief. In either case, the line between legal and illegal had already been broken. Edited: 2008-03-15 04:29
Jeo	2008-03-15 04:17
	Feeble: "if a suspect COULD have stolen a car, was he guilty?" Is that "feeblelogic"? That comparison halters on a lot of levels i hope i dont have to explain.
zbone	2008-03-15 03:36
	Seeing optimus' english comments I don't wonder anymore why he didn't say anything abut Turri's messages
careem	2008-03-15 03:34
	kosovo
raW	2008-03-15 00:49
	this is getting better Fins : "We are right about this and whoever says something opposite is stupid and brainless bla bla bla" Russians :"are you funny making me of?" You should stop this argument cause you don't even understand each other. Besides syanid clearly admitted that they've bend their own rules cause they wanted their friend have another go and decision will stay as it is now. btw. for all of you fins who say "start using your brains, you're stupid etc" - I happen to know that some of you like weird games like for example bunch of guys getting drunk, then naked and they're "fighting for quad" in the snow... you don't seem so brilliant either. Edited: 2008-03-15 00:49
optiMus	2008-03-14 18:31
	You only have shown these on how many it not fair league, all will be already clear who in the ending, and such upstarts as I here do not love
rzr	2008-03-14 18:12
	guys lets take prohibition/disqualification for timers at EDL playoff.
feeble.	2008-03-14 18:07
	Jeo: "I think its enough as saynid said: He COULD have had an advatage and didnt tell bout it." if a suspect COULD have stolen a car, was he guilty?
rzr	2008-03-14 18:01
	bullshit i dont see any argument for why this game must be replaeed... 3-0 optiMus won
optiMus	2008-03-14 17:57
	The most surprising from admins, what they cost only on the point of view, and any image do not wish to understand my point of view, what advantage, you that from mind banish?? You demos looked?? synid, you not badly play duels, you should understand that to what.. And you here have dissolved circus, the victory was obvious... And replay I do not want essentially as I consider that I have won fairly, and not because I am afraid to lose or still for something, yes because simply it is full delirium!!
optiMus	2008-03-14 17:47
	turri+admins>opti
kubi	2008-03-14 17:34
	Optimus, kick turri ass once again and prove it your skill. EOT Edited: 2008-03-14 17:34
Cheimera	2008-03-14 16:31
	the admins and pogo made a clear point in what they wrote if people dont understand that, then so be it. Its clear this mather have two opinions and nothing will change that. The way things are is the way they stay like it or not. No point discussing this anymore from the admins side or the side that supports the desicion. So i guess this is it. simple as that
Gip5y	2008-03-14 14:37
	I understand optimus how he feels now But why he dont want to replay this match? He won 3:0, some said that optimus is better than turri... So whats the problem? 2ez for optimus
jay_bee	2008-03-14 14:26
	have a bath, get a bike
kubi	2008-03-14 14:23
	370 comments guys get some life
jay_bee	2008-03-14 13:40
	almost agree except the last phrase. "if nothing this clear happened in Optimus-Turricane game, it makes no difference, because this could have happened." well i don't think it makes no difference. let's add that opti haden't time and reasons to think too much about this shit as sya have now. and let's also consider we have a lot of duels here in russia with this bug, and show me anyone .ru player who tells about practical, not theoretical, advantage. it's clear for me that opti evidently didn't see any advantage here and was too concentrate on much more useful things that moment
Lmty	2008-03-14 13:28
	jay_bee: Just quoting the comment. "For example in a tight game where Player A and B fights for the victory(think of dm1) player A gets killed. He spawns at rail, picks the rail and is able to run away from opponent through underground and all the way up to safety of the sg-room box, but with only a few health left. Instead of stopidly using the railgun and trying to get away with this low health, he drops the rail somewhere hidden and means to return to pick it up after he has gained some more health. However the opponent sees the say_team message saying "DROPPED WEAPON" and without a doubt he knows what happened. The plan made by Player A has failed and he can only wonder, how did he know that I dropped the rail there? This scenario and a thousand of other similar scenarios can happen in every map, in every game. If nothing this clear happened in Optimus-Turricane game, it makes no difference, because this could have happened." WUT!
jay_bee	2008-03-14 13:26
	oh, did i miss smth? did opti also cheated with spawns somehow? xD
Lmty	2008-03-14 13:20
	jay_bee: Okay, I assume you to have read syanid's post. Now tell me, how on Earth are you going to make Optimus's spawn points order all the same as Turricane's was? Edited: 2008-03-14 13:33
AlexyeNov	2008-03-14 13:18
	Ok. Not need too many words more, ppl. Date: march 16. opti will has w/o, this is a end point of fair play as i understand it in my mind. But... in RDL i will never doing anything same to this decision, my players can be sure about it.
jay_bee	2008-03-14 13:13
	as i see these things are not interferred. surely and forever must be denied, and rules must have an entry about. but this situation isn't simple enough to be solving this way
Lmty	2008-03-14 12:56
	jay_bee: What a nonsense. Read up the syanid's comment, and try to understand why visible teammessages must be denied. Or wait for my translation to be posted onto quake2.com.ru
jay_bee	2008-03-14 12:50
	ye, admins are always right ) goverment is telling the truth and so on. anyway, desicion was set up. btw i have a nice idea. if both players seem to be equal guilty, maybe we need an equal justice here? this means that opti needs a second chance too. how can we reach it? i offer to replay this match 2 times - first with opti timers visible to turri and second (if turri wins the first ofcoz) will be "non-bug" match. i think it's the real fair decision and also is very popular for community imo
arch^	2008-03-14 12:29
	I am not admin nor russian nor do I have finish bonds, so I am kind of an outsider on all this. But I think it is clear now what the russians think. "ye, it's our bifurcation point of opinions coz we think it isn't enough to replay confidently won match " In this stage it is useless to still say what 'you' think, it is already clear enough, and you did not provide good enough arguements to make the admins reconsider their decision. You all have had so much time to think about a good arguement already, I think there won't ever be one. Now it is time for you guys to accept that you do not agree with the admin's decision, and they do not agree with the things you say. There is nothing to do about that. And as you can see it is like 50/50 in this thread, which side the people are on. So whatever side the admins had picked, there is 50% of the people who will not agree. Please, just realise that. I sense the lack of empathy with many people here! I agree though with Jeo, maybe the admins could have presented this news in another way, so that russians wouldn't have felt so 'offended'. Bye, thx... Edited: 2008-03-14 12:31
jay_bee	2008-03-14 12:24
	well i'm sure that none of them would demand to replay 0:3 loosed match if this happen p.s. ye maybe this way some ppl can see it Edited: 2008-03-14 12:28
Turricane	2008-03-14 12:23
	Nice Jeo, mby this way some ppl can see it.
Jeo	2008-03-14 12:15
	If Purri and Damiah plays edl-final and Purri can see all damiah:s timers and such. Would you think that was ok? Edited: 2008-03-14 12:17
jay_bee	2008-03-14 12:11
	Jeo ye, it's our bifurcation point of opinions coz we think it isn't enough to replay confidently won match )
Lmty	2008-03-14 12:08
	2Dimmo: Thanks. 2syanid: Thank you too, I've translated your comment into Russian, and I think it's about to be added onto the main Russian Q2 site.
jay_bee	2008-03-14 12:06
	oh, and one more question. were there any other replayed matches in edl ever? i just want to see what usually causes to force to replay
Jeo	2008-03-14 12:03
	I think its enough as saynid said: He COULD have had an advatage and didnt tell bout it.
rl	2008-03-14 11:58
	Well, I changed my mind.. and I think admins make a right decision tho, if the game wasn't played by the rules no matter who's fault is it...the game SHOULD BE replayed...anyway zdufs +1
jay_bee	2008-03-14 11:56
	Jeo no problem about arguments. you say "he might have an advantage" and we say "but he haven't" and it's clearly (ok, for me) if u saw the demos. but if it is not so clear for you so why don't you point us at the demo's moment when he really have an advantage which gave him an unfair win? well, if u really discover anything then only that map can be replayed (imo ofcoz) i'm still sure admin's decision is not adequate to the situation
Jeo	2008-03-14 11:49
	Maybe admins could have stated replay because of situation or server settings arose that wasnt covered in rules.
Dimmo	2008-03-14 11:40
	Lohmatiy: Yeah you are right. I wanted to flame a little bit just to go with the flow. You handle english far better than me. Btw i've always wanted to say you have a good nick =)
Jeo	2008-03-14 11:27
	I think syanids long post covered it all. Well spoken! Russian flamers supporting an unfair and unsportly game makes me think of russians using chemicals to win in international championships. Maybe its the way of russians? Why do you support this kind of behaviour? IF your argument is that it wasnt any advantage to see those messages, then plz reply to those arguments made by pogo, syanid and me that says it DOES give an advantage. Give an argument that clearly counter our arguments. If you cant, then its clear that optimus did play with unfair advantage. Supporting that should be below anyone here. If russians continue arguing that its ok, they will only empower the prejustice that russians like to cheat and use improper methods to win. =)
Lmty	2008-03-14 11:05
	2Dimmo: "Is there a single one russian in q2 scene who can talk english?" Is my English that bad? There were a few posts of mine, haven't you read the whole topic?
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-14 10:44
	we wanna see Dimmo as russian EDL admin
Spam	2008-03-14 10:41
	what is is you dont understand of their english dimmu? sure you have to read it a bit more careful to understand but its still understandable. Maybe its your englishskills that lacks if you cant undrestand it?
Dimmo	2008-03-14 10:33
	Is there a single one russian in q2 scene who can talk english? You've got to wonder do these babelfish forum posters even read what people have written here and how could they understand it if it's not in russian.
syanid	2008-03-14 10:08
	Yes zdufs, wision has done most of the job for the league and we would not have make it without his efforts. Also I would like to say that we have not said anything about how hard it is to run a league, have we? So stop pulling your accusations out of your ass.
jay_bee	2008-03-14 10:08
	zdufs +1 we strongly need international admin crew with equal rights and abilities. first of all - there will be no suspicions in bias decisions. second - the decisions evidently will be more objective
bas'ik	2008-03-14 10:05
	we need russian headadmin!
ceLer1	2008-03-14 10:00
	zdufs
zdufs	2008-03-14 09:44
	cheimera you must be really stupid 1st - how can you not understand what gravgon wrote, its so simple and clear 2nd - its not about opinions its about rules 3rd - muerte wtf are you talking, again some irrelevant spam 4th - admins lost respect again which seems right, cause in previous problems they also handled them really really poor and pls dont give me bs about how hard is to run a league sya and kicia cause all you two do is watch games and bs ppl and all the real work is doing wision who i think is a good boy and wision did also some mistakes when he added warning and then removed it which is not (how do i say it) the right way, cause you first must go trough all the facts and proof and make decisions afterwards which was not done in this matter and alot others, so to sum it all up: we need new admins Edited: 2008-03-14 09:46
ceLer1	2008-03-14 09:29
	Turricane you understand, if opti will put w/o and you will play farther, you will go down on all of Europe, as a player and as a man... I on yours place would not begin to be disgraced...it will be memorized on long and respect will not be to you.
bas'ik	2008-03-14 08:47
	Cheimera What did u mean - like you runned in the winter war, pussys... ?
ceLer1	2008-03-14 08:47
	Well that I can say you fellows. We wait you in saint Petersburg. And there will remember everything about war. We wait you!!!
Gravgon	2008-03-14 08:14
	I talk about it, I don't say it's like that God is it that hard to make the difference between "people might think you decided that because you're finnish" and "Me, myself and I think that..." I just wanted to say that when you take a decision with no rule to back it up, you'd better give a solid explanation to it or ELSE people can interpret it like biased.
Cheimera	2008-03-14 07:28
	Gravgon: I had a point i wasent pointing you out as the bad guy if you understand, it was a point of this wholoe situation. And btw here is a post you talk about nationalism: "Not only it's wrong, but it's also a bit stupid since people can easily think you took this decision to favour your favourite in this game (yeah it happens that Turricane is Finnish and the head admins of this league are very connected to Finland, aren't they?). It should have made you even more cautious to take a sanction with no rule to back it up." Edited: 2008-03-14 07:34
syanid	2008-03-14 07:09
	As kicia put it, the decision will stay. I have read all the comments made under this topic and for me it seems unreal, how people can see some thing so differently. I have had no doubts towards the decision about this match, because it is the only right thing to do. There have been arguments about admins favouring certain players, about admins disrespecting players and whole .ru community and admins abusing their power. These accusations are just so far-out and stopid, that I won't even start commenting them. The decision about forcing the match to be replayed is an obligation for players to replay it. It is not an friendly suggestion or a question, "will you play it?". Asking something nicely is not something that we HAVE to do, if a player feels like we have hurted their feelings when we just simply posted the decision here on the EDL page, then I suggest that you grow up. It is a normal way to announce the decision, not an intentionally disrespectful behaviour. About the decision itself, there has not been a single argument that would make me feel that the decision was wrong. Why? I will tell you why. And since some of you are not qualified to use your own brains for thinking, I will try to explain this for you. A few people say, that optimus did not get that much of an advantage from seeing the say_team messages from Turricane. Everyone can judge this by themselves by watching the demos, but this is not the point. The point is, that Optimus DID have the advantage AND even more, he could have got advantage that will alone make him win the match. What can these say_team messages do, to change the outcome of the match so greatly, you may ask. Here you need to stop and think instead of running into a conclusions and attacking the admins with your idiotic comments. For example in a tight game where Player A and B fights for the victory(think of dm1) player A gets killed. He spawns at rail, picks the rail and is able to run away from opponent through underground and all the way up to safety of the sg-room box, but with only a few health left. Instead of stopidly using the railgun and trying to get away with this low health, he drops the rail somewhere hidden and means to return to pick it up after he has gained some more health. However the opponent sees the say_team message saying "DROPPED WEAPON" and without a doubt he knows what happened. The plan made by Player A has failed and he can only wonder, how did he know that I dropped the rail there? This scenario and a thousand of other similar scenarios can happen in every map, in every game. If nothing this clear happened in Optimus-Turricane game, it makes no difference, because this could have happened. Optimus can't see the future in the beginning of the match, so he will not know how much advantage he will really gain by seeing the opponents binds. If he does not get so obvious and clear advantage, does it mean it is ok not to tell the opponent about the say_team messages? Does it mean, that seeing the these messages will BECOME A CHEAT ONLY AFTER something this obvious happens, as in my example? No. It does not, because then it would be too late and THE MISTAKE WOULD HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED and there would be no way of undoing it. Damage is done, what can you do about it? It is almost the same, as if player would have a Wallhack which only works occationally. Sometimes he sees just emptiness behind the wall, sometimes he sees something that gives him immedeately an upper hand over the 2nd player. The cheat and the chances for a huge advantage are there all the time and this can change the outcome of the game. For that reason this advantage must be denied just as this partial wallhacking would be denied. In the case of my example the damage has been done, the game has ended. Not any warning against Player B will fix this, nothing will - except playing the game again and this time fair. One of the admins tasks in the league is to supervise the games, to see that they are played by the rules and under conditions that should be as even they they can be. Someone may have better computer than the other, or ping better on the most even server. These are things we cannot effect on. Here is a thing that we can effect and which is clearly favouring one of the players. We have acted and yet, we are accused for trying to maintain the fairness in the games. Personal opinions are your personal opinions, but try to think a little further than your own nose and get over your prejudice towards this decision, because I know many of you are against this just because it was your first reaction before you had time to think the reasons behind it and now you are blindly continuing this whine just for a sake of principle. The best and only thing that Optimus can do here, is to accept that he had the advantage, he made a mistake by playing the whole game with the advantage and that the admin team has decided that it was wrong. A simple rematch with a fair conditions will undo all this and the best man will win. If he still refuses to play the game, there is nothing I can do about it. I would personally never respect and appreciate a victory if the game was not fair. So optimus, go and schedule the game and play it, atleast then you will not have the status of a guy who won an unfair game in EDL#6 and wanted to keep the victory no matter what.
Gravgon	2008-03-14 07:03
	Cheimera: read and read again my post because I've never said anything like that The admins are not always right, they must motivate their decision and it's the way they motivated this one that bothers me. And besides, I haven't said "ru supports ru, fi supports fi" either, I said people have one vision of fairplay or the other based on what they think is right. Then I explained how can people come to one or the other conclusion so I never said anything about nationalism. Tbh if you read my post carefully I don't think it requires more explaination...
LBA2	2008-03-14 06:55
	Incidents with RU players are most commently in EDL... thats the real fame! )))
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-14 06:52
	#333
Cheimera	2008-03-14 06:47
	Gravgon: Thats your opinion that the admins dident handle the situation rigth, and my opinion is they did. So whos rigth you or me? That the game being replayed is the fairest thing to do in this situation is my opinion and you have the opposit opinion, whos rigth or wrong, you or me? Do you get my point? So once again IN MY OPINION the only ones who can choose whats right or wrong is the admins. And their choice is the opinion witch is for the best of the league. And all that bullshit about yeh finnish people support finnish people etc and oh its all against russian etc. Thats just nonsense and you know it, something easy to counter with and lean back on and to have someone to blame on without he/she can never proof the accuser wrong. I would easily kick/bann or make desicions like this vs any FIN or SWE, pogo ph thaigo dami purri you name it, if i would think someone of them are wrong, and exactly the same would the admins do. And They have already punished thaigo once for an example. Edited: 2008-03-14 06:49
Muerte	2008-03-14 06:43
	become weird when players like Gravgon famous with his lowlife behavior in EDL start lecture admins http://hosted.filefront.com/rejpall/
xed	2008-03-14 06:40
	gj gravgon.
LBA2	2008-03-14 06:36
	optimus, we all really sorry! but decision still hardly stay and will be staying to the deadline! So u can just be a man, ru-MAN! ))))))) i so fckin like this game )))) ps. +1 to Pogo
Gravgon	2008-03-14 06:29
	Alexander_The_U is actually one of the only few people who understood the situation correctly here. I'm sorry Pogo but the problem does NOT come from one of the player's behaviour. So far it's been ~300 comments and we usually have 2 sides: - Turricane was the one who committed a mistake! He should have used another cfg - optiMus was the one who committed a mistake! He should have told Turricane about the bug. Both of these interpretations are wrong. What the players SHOULD or SHOULD NOT have done isn't relevant here. You will go for one way or the other only based one what you judge right confronted to that duel.cfg bug on tourney servers. And it will depend on your own experience... Russian people might not judge it necessary to tell your opponent about that bug because they play most of their games on tourney servers, so they're used to that bug and for so many years they expect people to have a custom cfg for duels. On the other hand, scandi players have another approach because they play most of their games on battle so they're not often exposed to that bug. That's why according to your own sense of fairplay based on your experience, you think optimus should have told turricane about it. The REAL problem though here is not what the players _should_ or _should not_ have done. It's what they MUST have done. And nothing in the rules had that covered. That's why none of them committed any mistake. Facing a hole in the rules, the admins usually take a decision based one what they think is right. They only had 2 choices: - leave the result like that -> in this case optimus would have had an advantage. - cancel the game -> in this case turricane has the advantage since he has a second chance. They decided to go for the latter and, although in my opinion it was wrong, I can't really blame them for that. BUT what was more wrong imo is the way it was presented. First because this decision was taken way too late. You made it look like it was brought because of peer pressure. Then you made it look like it was a sanction towards optimus (although like I said, he didn't do anything wrong). So all in all I'm personally more disappointed by the way this situation was handled by the admins than by the decision itself. A couple of other things that bother me: * Some people said it was not such a big deal to replay a game. Or that optimus overreacted. Well the people who reached the playoffs surely have put some time into this league, they took it seriously and had high hopes so I think such a case should be treated with care because this IS a big deal. And EDL will keep on being a prestigious league as long as it's still a big deal for the players. * Many comments made by "unknown" players were disregarded and I've read things like "it doesnt matter it's only some unknown russian's opinion". Well when someone makes a valid point, who he is shouldn't matter. I don't think the opinion of a known respected elite player is more worth than the opinion of "some unknown guy". That's it, things won't change now and the league will go on but I hope the admins will handle such a situation better next time.
Cheimera	2008-03-14 06:25
	haha people talk so much bullshit this has become my favourit page on internet when i am lookin for a laugh. Btw russians not participating next edl!? omg what a loss we will all run for you and beg you to come back, like you runned in the winter war, pussys... (now thats just to try go get this thread to 400)
bas'ik	2008-03-14 06:17
	What the fuck do you talking about??? I think that there are many russians players will ignored next EDL, cauz this admins politic of double standard nas zaebala ^) - ru. players - noobs and we'll do anything, and fi. players are rulezzzz? and they are must win this sranuyu EDL. Well, we all seen that the optimus was better then turri - its thrue moi zamorskie brat'ya...
kicia	2008-03-14 06:03
	Alexander, and what's ur problem now? I said im sorry, didnt i? You wanted apologize... About being disrespectful, tell me how we are disrespecting ppl here, hm? Did we offend optimus? HOW? By pointing facts? So how does it work now - true hurts? Seems like. Since when q2 community is so EMO? Suddenly. Anyway stop pouring more oil to fire, and just get over it. Be a man and take it as a man. Edited: 2008-03-14 06:04
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-14 05:17
	u r disrespecting player then u disrespecting league and yrself too. good luck with such politics.
optiMus	2008-03-14 05:05
	:
kicia	2008-03-14 04:52
	I'm so sorry then that i so much hurted optimus feelings, really... but decision will stay.
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-14 04:40
	I tried to understood who is right, who is guilty very long. Considered a situation from opti point of view, and from turri point. And here to what I have come. Turricane has not adjusted a config for a pure duel server. Optimus has not been obliged to inform. Having thought more deeply, I have understood that it is a mistake, is caused by incompetence of the administrative stuff and referee. But why the winner should pay off for an organizational mistake? Correctly it not should. I see the decision of this complicated situation: Administrators should apologize for a committed organizational mistake (to Turricane and to optiMus), should apologize for slander to opti, offer another chance to play if both of players will agree. . If administrators will not change the decision, they will show disrespect not only for players of a match, but also for all players and fans of league. P.S. Sorry for my english.
Damiah	2008-03-14 03:16
	I totally agree what pogo said!
AlexyeNov	2008-03-14 01:39
	Dimmo: in rus optiMus is opti And in Europe too now .
Dimmo	2008-03-13 19:27
	optimizer = opti optimus = optimus
Muerte	2008-03-13 19:24
	Cheimera cu after next 100.ru Edited: 2008-03-13 19:24
Cheimera	2008-03-13 18:18
	finally i get some support here, guys what took you so long? I have been flamed my ass of buy russians for 300 comments
Jeo	2008-03-13 17:57
	I just have to add something to this legendary thread. I totally agree with everyone saying seeing opponents timers is an advantage. As thg said u dont hear every armour and weapon taken. Especially not on dm1. There is no way of hearing when mega countdown hits 100. If optimus found this spamming of teamsays annoying or confusing, why didnt he tell? (in between maps if he was afraid of loosing by typing for 3 sec). Its easy to suspect that he didnt tell because he actually found it useful. At anytime during a duel one of those messages could have made optimus make a slightly different choice, thus making a random rocket or such hit differently or not at all. Such a small difference in gameplay rythm could change the outcome of the match. The goal of every player should be to make every game as fair and equal as possible. Eliminating every aspect of the game that could give one player advantage. I think every player of this community should support this kind of thinking. =D Edited: 2008-03-13 18:01
shn	2008-03-13 17:55
	keep up the good work. no.314
Pogo	2008-03-13 17:46
	I wasn't gonna make a comment here since people are flaming wildly, but here goes... No one is saying opti actively cheated because he clearly didn't. What he did do was have an advantage for 3 straight maps and failed to mention this even once between those maps. Obviously this was turris "mistake" (but how should he know that the server was set up that way since 99% of the servers are not). But optimus played 3 maps KNOWING he had an advantage (how big/small really doesnt matter) that could easily have been corrected by saying something very simple like "i see timers" after the first map. I really dont know if replaying the game because of this is right or not, but i do think that many people writing comments fail to see the basic problem here. The problem is not that anyone cheated or broke the rules, the problem is that opti just kept on playing 3 straight maps despite seeing these timers. People say opti "didn't do anything", exactly, thats why we are having this discussion Edited: 2008-03-13 17:53
Cheimera	2008-03-13 15:26
	rl what?
nex	2008-03-13 14:34
	Thaigo: "It doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in that game, the point is that optimus might have had an unfair advantage because of those timers. We will never know if he used it or not to his advantage." Hm.... with strong emphasis on: "might have had an unfair advantage" "We will never know" Exactly. But people usualy don't have to prove they are innocent, you have to prove they are guilty. Opti might have agreed to replay match if he wasn't just outright called cheater. It wasn't his fault and nobody can be sure if he even paid attention to these messages. Actually, everything is Turri's fault, isn't it? So calling Opti cheater and forcing him to replay match was wrong thing to do and looks like admins had an axe to grind. I'm not saying it is so, but to some it might look like it. No wonder Opti & other Rusians aren't happy with this. Everything could be easily solved if admins tried more diplomatic aproach IMO. My solution: replay match but give Opti 1 map lead because it is Turri's fault first match was fucked up Oh, and excuse my ignorance but wasn't there admin on server when match was played? He should have seen these messages. Just my 0.02 Edited: 2008-03-13 14:35
AlexyeNov	2008-03-13 13:49
	when will played edl #6 1/4 final Purri vs Opti ?
rl	2008-03-13 13:26
	[qrwa]ch: I'm not scandi, SORRY
shai	2008-03-13 10:23
	shai see u naked.
Cheimera	2008-03-13 09:40
	shai is turning into rl haha
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-13 02:27
	What, each match played on Tourney server can be cancelled, if someone from players used messagemode2 under own initiative?
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-13 02:17
	cheat or bug or human mistake? let's see - since 99 year we are all play in OSP Tourney mode mostly where teammessages works fine only for teamplay mode. battleground server became popular much later.. As I wish to pay your attention to that fact, that TDM adjustments for Duel Servers were used owing to illiteracy of administrators, from for complexities of adjustment of last versions mostly(2.75, 2.76 versions). It is obvious, that use teammessages is a mistake of turri. NOT Optimus cheat. Its just turricane MISTAKE.
shai	2008-03-13 01:27
	Stupid dispute. Stupid admins. They dont see our arguments, they do not wish us to hear. " Even if we are not right - we shall not change the opinion" - here their motto. So fuck them all. We shall live without them "fair" leagues, without their bull opinion. I advise everyone who will ever play with them - bind a key for frase like: "Hey, %nickname%, you have a BIG advantage, you see my messages, I PICK ARMOR/WPN!!!" rofl
Cheimera	2008-03-12 21:09
	PartyZan has to be the best mega timer ever the way you are telling it that you automaticly press +20 when you hear enemy pick health paks, well ok yeh sure but you wont get an very accurate timing on the mega, and in duels having it accurate is really important. So helps ALOT to see your enemy time the mega as you get same timing as your opponent and can be ready for him when he goes for it again while your enemy thinks he has the advantage still cause of hes precise timing
PartyZan	2008-03-12 19:58
	thaigo You said: "And for example if enemy has mega and u shoot at him, u never know when he has under 100hp..." Do you know that when you have a different amount of health, and when you get hit your "pain screams" sounds different too? So it is possible to predict how much health you have And as Scooby already said : "3. the only "hint" i can see in this "visible" msgmode2 by turricane is when it comes to timing the MH, QUAD, 666 .... since the both latter r tdm stuff... and mh... hmmm i hear the guy taking healthpacks i automatically press my +20 button..." thaigo: "...and u cant time mega..." so after all i think it will be easy to time it Edited: 2008-03-12 20:03
zdufs	2008-03-12 19:50
	301
thaigo	2008-03-12 19:07
	necr, u don't always hear every sound(because of lag or maybe ure picking something up yourself), but messages u see always. And for example if enemy has mega and u shoot at him, u never know when he has under 100hp and u cant time mega, but if he presses timer 20s bind, then u will know when mega spawns. With just sounds u wouldn't know. So there goes your so called fact. Edited: 2008-03-12 19:08
rl	2008-03-12 19:06
	Talk to hand mr. disconnectman
Necr	2008-03-12 19:03
	"the point is that optimus might have had an unfair advantage because of those timers." Ahaha. If you are taking part in the conversation then at least stop repeating the same thing that has been stated pointless by a great bunch of players and provide some arguements at last. The other way it's really bullshit, sorry. I can't beleive quake2 is supposed to be played nosound and sound is a cheat. This messages are the same as sounds nothing more I don't understand why you guys are ignoring this simple fact.
Spam	2008-03-12 18:15
	how can you answer to him if you dont know that he have wrote something to you rl? "I don't even read your comments [qrwa]ch SORRY" Are you synical or just mentaly disturbed? Once again you showed you stupidity...
rl	2008-03-12 18:00
	I don't even read your comments [qrwa]ch SORRY
Cheimera	2008-03-12 17:18
	rl 2008-03-12 23:11 get a life thgretard rl hits us again!! hahah dude stop it no point in your stupid comments you cant lower yourself anymore, youve hit the bottom already a couple of comments before Edited: 2008-03-12 17:19
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-12 16:19
	2 thaigo: are ya voice of EDL admins crew?
rl	2008-03-12 16:11
	get a life thgretard
thaigo	2008-03-12 16:04
	To sum it up for all of you: First turricane agrees to play with 20vs40 ping disadvantage and optimus isn't man enough to say that he sees turricanes timermessages. It doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in that game, the point is that optimus might have had an unfair advantage because of those timers. We will never know if he used it or not to his advantage. This current solution is a compromiss, the best solution available. If admins would let optimus keep his unfair win, they would favor optimus. If admins would let turricane win by wo, they would favor him. Replaying this match is a compromiss. CsLq2, my situation cannot be compared to this, because I would have been able to send demos to admins in case they wanted to search for cheats, but I did not want to send demos for public sharing.
AlexyeNov	2008-03-12 15:36
	Where can i download this match's Turricane's pov demos ? p.s. nice results... http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424 if this league maked for comunity admins must hear us.. And... Principles are not good for admins side... Edited: 2008-03-12 15:42
CsLq2	2008-03-12 13:33
	Thaigo, first of all - I'm from Latvia, not Russia And ok, if you get warning - let's make same decision for Opti.
check	2008-03-12 13:21
	to get 300 : Cheimera chill out dude. You're like stuck on track 1. I can imagine some1 posting a couple of times but u take it to another lvl. Not mentioning the swearing in a lot of your posts... PS i DO want to c another ztn2dm3 match from Opti tho !
Cheimera	2008-03-12 12:40
	raW: i dont wanna reply on all the else you have wrote since i have done it several times already. But one thing for all of you to think about. If an admin were at the server he would have restarted the game instantly when noticed one of the opponents could see the other ones binds. Thats all i am gonna say, if your brains dont start working now then they will never
Platon	2008-03-12 11:59
	raW it was already said, even few times, that optimus was punished for turris mistake, admins have made theirs decision and it seems that they wont gonna change it. Too bad but life has to go on. Opti won once and he doesn't see any need to do it again. Opti vs purri could be a very exciting match after his good performance vs thg and syanid in group stage.
raW	2008-03-12 10:26
	I had to login on this site for the first time in years after I saw this :} this is all really funny. admins (or any other supervisors) will always favour their mates, families etc. that's a fact. There were few examples of this in the past seasons of q2 - for example - one cb cup ~ about 10 obvious nickfakings - only 1 detected and punished, cause only this 1 was in the game involving cup supervisors, they didn't bother to even check ip's in any other game. now this is nothing like it. optimus is in kinda no way out situation. just like he was taking a test in school and suddenly techer starts to write the answers on the blackboard. he doesn't need it to pass cause he studied hard and knows about 90% of them. But then the principal comes in and says that the test has to be repeated or he'll be thrown out of school. but there's a little catch, cause there are like million possible questions so it's impossible to learn all of this and he may fail next time. I think some of you guys shouldn't take this game so deadly seriously especially fins (most of you are too old for that anyway). One thing I can't understand is why admins cancelled this match. Since they're all involved with q2scene for so long they should know what would it lead up to and that it wouldn't be good for the game at all. First of all turricane did not complain and the rules were not broken ( you can say about those so called "fair play" but that would be misconstrue and really weak argument - too weak to do this at this stage of the cup). What you ended up with is there will be no repeated match and maybe no more optimus and other good russian players in edl which is a shame. And then one of the biggest arguments ever kinda war for nothing (where as always same people are trying to prove how intelligent and better than the rest they are - which is pretty funny cause they're not really connected personally with this case and the only thing they can prove is that they've got no life outside q2 and they really taking this game too seriously). Finally it doesn't really matter overall who will win this game cause he will lose next one no doubt. Imo there's no good way of solving this now. Maybe the replay but if optimus lost it it would get even worse... btw. I'm not nationally biased and didn't really knew who is optimus and turricane so I have nothing agaist both of them as well as their homelands - I don't like some fins though, because of their disrespective and offensive behaviour towards other nations and complete lack of distance to this game and it's scene, not only here but many times before (like thaigo for example).
shai	2008-03-12 10:15
	These problems and "fair play" only in your inflamed consciousness
name	2008-03-12 10:11
	you, whats wrong with dimmo, btw? is he dead or smthng?
Jou	2008-03-12 09:44
	Name you are right in what you say. I just understood of what turri said that it's almost impossible to talk with optimus because of their language problems. They have tried to talk, but in any way it's almost impossible without someone who can talk both languages. Here we could need some help from Dimmo. Well I hope as you said name that they replay the match and then we can see who is the better player. A clean match without problems would be nice and probably a match with more viewers on GTV than Purri-Provi match I would reckon. Now stop flaming you all, soon people writing posts here won't even remember what the argue was about in the first place.
Cheimera	2008-03-12 09:07
	rl: i can assure there would never be any whine if a game is played the way it should, expect the normal ping whine haha but what would Q2 be without ping whine Muerte: intressting stuff you brought up and nice point. As you can see only reply you get is: omg omg vint lives far away!? Wich has nothing to do with what you wrote, sometimes you wonder if those guys can read at all CsLq2: As thaigo wrote, he dident send his demo and got warned. He broke the rule got punished. simple as that, so whats so fucking intressting?
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-12 08:02
	by finns for finns.
thaigo	2008-03-12 07:48
	CsLq2, intresting in what way? I refused to send demos once and got warning from it. Everything happened by the rules. I dunno what rules you have there in Russia, but when playing european duel league, you have to play by the rules that this league has. For all I care you can stay playing your own cheating league if you don't play by edl-rules. Edited: 2008-03-12 07:57
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-12 07:46
	admins have offended opti by the decision. It is obvious, that without an apology from administrators opti(As any person of respecting and fair) will not answer. I think many players have understood, what preferences of administrators and\or league as a whole.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-12 07:42
	2 Muerte. Let me remind to ya that Vint lives in Kemerovo (+5 hours time difference to Moscow, +7 CET). he has only two troubles: 1. Very high ping on huge european servers. so he able to play only on russians servers 2. Time deffirence as i said before. >>>Updated. All ppl in q2 community know how VINT is playing. He plays very good, neither he has a shitty conntection. Ya're keep surprising me again and again. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't give a fuck about your sense to him. So keep digging this shit Muerte! Edited: 2008-03-12 07:53
CsLq2	2008-03-12 07:40
	Muerte, if you say something about the demos, don't you think that Thaigo's situation was also interesting?
name	2008-03-12 07:22
	... Turri could conceive replay, and safe his face from being humiliated again, since he should know, that those messages hardly helped his opponent before. ...Optimus could agree to rematch, win and show that his success wasn't build on some stupid mistake. But the thing is both players doing nothing to resolve this nonsense situation: maybe because now they feel more important than the rest of the players, although both have no chances against PURRI. As they are satisfied doing nothing, they both should be removed from next round. Edited: 2008-03-12 07:24
jay_bee	2008-03-12 07:08
	ok, let's draw the fin(n)ish line. we from opti side have brought a lot of reasonable arguments and none of them were heard. i don't know what is it - bias or dogmatism, and to tell the truth it's not interesting. pity on you ppl, thats all gl turri in next stage. thnx to all, cya ppl.
Muerte	2008-03-12 06:36
	nice to see Russia become Poland's friend nice to see how part of Russian cheating community thank to his dear friends Gravgon, scooby, kolt, spam, manu', zdufs ef\|da^wd make his point. after his post (and others) i feel free to check why they mention russian player Vint maybe u remember this wonder player: 2nd in 2nd division last EDL advanced in group stage after elimination but if u check his scores and demos story is different vint cheated on same way like optimus http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=descr&id=62376 after win over apkis vint get: official warning for VINT for NOT being able to provide the demo when he was asked to... vint beat his direct opponent from Poland vibez and advanced to group stage http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=descr&id=62379 but if u check demos vint posted on russian site (where don't have CHEATING section) its clear how he making his wins http://quake2.com.ru/downloads/demos/488/ in group stage vint had spectacular win over Jakkari http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=descr&id=62734 proud Vint post demos with proof how he cheated http://quake2.com.ru/downloads/demos/531/ at least 70 ppl from Russian q2 scene know how Vint get his wins and part of them still want to optimus continue to win on same way should we say: fuck apkis and his lyl who care about vibez he is from Poland Jakkari next time watch your timers for me is hard to understand how this kind of cheating is normal in Russian community should we check every single demo in EDL played by Russian players to find how kind "fair play" Russian players promote ps. sad but this is not 1st time for optimus he was using same way in previous seasons in EDL i like to get replay from dearest russian friends Gravgon, scooby, kolt, spam, manu', zdufs
rl	2008-03-12 05:51
	I'm just wondering, what kind of stupid argument thaigo is gonna use if optiMus will rape turricane again...
kubi	2008-03-12 03:12
	what can i say........ NEW RECORD \o/\o/\o/
shai	2008-03-12 02:43
	http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424 2/3 votes against your decisions! Did you think about opinion of the MAJORITY? That admin who does not listen to this opinion - is silly. And he for a long time will not keep his status. Its a historical experience. Not my. Not .ru. Can u understand it? Stop a farce, enough
slippi	2008-03-11 20:35
	Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. :]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Cheimera	2008-03-11 20:31
	jay_bee: How can you say it has happened when no one brought it up to the admins, if amdins knew about it they would have acted. ef\|da^wd: same thing goes for you about purri - vint game, no one complained to the admins so how can expect something to happen, little late now isent it? xokan: ye dont you think turricane would have done that if he knew about it? Smart ass
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-11 19:58
	2 jay_bee they don't have a sence about our arguments, and they completly ingored our questions. They're just seying some kind of "nationality issues" on this and stupid 250+ posts. The easiest way to stop this decussion is just say to those ppl: thaigo, wision, syanid, kicia - FUCK OFF! And let them eat this BULLSHIT by themselves p.s. Gravgon, scooby, kolt, spam, manu', zdufs and etc, thanks a lot, guys for your supporting Edited: 2008-03-11 20:01
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-11 19:23
	2 thaigo. Yes ya're right. it's a simple. It's just play-off game and no-more! Let's re-play also game VINT vs PURRY, couz VINT saw his say_team messages and it was really incovinient for VINT. It was "unfair", ya're fuckin' right again! BTW why this BULLSHIT has been made without our admin's crew? P.s. nothing bad to say about PURRI and VINT...cheers
jay_bee	2008-03-11 19:18
	thaigo well tell me how can anyone check this message-bug up? seems to me it will be very hard for admins to check all matches closely from start second to the end one, cause maybe this shit will happen in the very end of the last demo ) looks like noone can guarantee all that "unfair advantages" will be punished Edited: 2008-03-11 19:20
thaigo	2008-03-11 18:20
	ef\|da^wd, Where exactly has a similar situation happened? And if there has been similar situations, those games would have been replayed if someone just let admins know about it. And no, those games won't be replayed anymore because those games(if there is any) were played earlier. Ignorant fools.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-11 18:03
	2 yani accordin' to syanid & co decicision. Yes they should
yani	2008-03-11 18:01
	I would like to ask admins if ALL other games with such a messages will be canceled and replayed?
shn	2008-03-11 17:52
	haha you are still going about this no. 262
jay_bee	2008-03-11 17:36
	Cheimera "jay_bee: ffs you/we dont know anything about the past, how in the hell can you bring somethin like that up." oh, what do i see? you write down "you/we". It means that ME is equal YOU in this bringing something up. So your assumption about people who don't know if their opponents were cheating this way, seems to be at least as stupid as my one ) good boy )
jay_bee	2008-03-11 17:17
	the_doom +1 and now here's one logical chain about guilt 1) how did we know about this opti's "cheating"? from his demo, ofcoz. He uploaded this demo, as it ordered in rules. Even more, he uploaded it on the public site, where we can easily find it. 2) And what would be if he don't upload it to anyone? He would receive a warning from admins like in this case for example http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=descr&id=62376 Now, lets build a reducio ad absurdum proof. 3) Let's admit that opti is guilty of unfairness. Therefore he WAS unfair. If he was unfair he surely realize that. If he realize that, he also realize that he most likely has to be punished by refs. Therefore he should hide the proofs of his guilt. For exaple he simply may not to upload demos and receive warning from refs. So here is the absurdum Did he do that? No, he didn't. Why? Because he feels no guilty. And he feels no guilty because he don't think he did something unfair. And he think so because he receives NO ADVANTAGE out of it say_team_messages_bug at all. (end of proof)
the_doom	2008-03-11 16:25
	consent to replay itself means recognition guilty of the crime, which did not commit. it humiliate players dignity and steals his honestly won victory. if there is no guilt, then why do replay? that is why replay will not be.
xokan	2008-03-11 15:50
	Very Easy: hit T "messagemode1" Words: Turri, turn off timers. Its really simple, why not make this? Sorry for the ridiculous english hehe !!
Cheimera	2008-03-11 15:40
	jay_bee: ffs you/we dont know anything about the past, how in the hell can you bring somethin like that up. kolt: we are talking about the majority in this case. and the majority thats complaining are russians that would never complain about the lague and its admins or rules if it wasent a russian player involed. but fuck it seriously cry us a river. Match is gonna be replayed if not, turri wins by w/o like it or not... desicion is made
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-11 15:29
	0x00000100
jay_bee	2008-03-11 15:27
	Cheimera u're a little funny in ru we have a good proverb which can be translated as - if you don't see the rabbit it doesn't mean its absense at all. sapienti sat
kolt	2008-03-11 15:03
	its funny how cheimera/thaigo r trying to make it a ru vs admins war spam/gravgon/zdufs/agent/me - yes yes we r all russians
Cheimera	2008-03-11 14:33
	jay_Bee: lol how can they say there was advantage when they dident know someone of the players had advantage. ffs that was the supidest comment of all these 250+ comments. congratulations
kubi	2008-03-11 14:06
	ru vs others :] GG
nrk	2008-03-11 14:03
	thaigo no, but it looks good isnt? btw shai u looking hot to reminds me of a THING that i have in my pants Edited: 2008-03-11 14:04
jay_bee	2008-03-11 13:25
	Cheimera well don't you wondering why those matches weren't known at the time? because people never found any unfair advantage there and they never demanded to rematch basing on so lame reason
jay_bee	2008-03-11 13:17
	2name you know, it's really not so small deal ) show me the winner who would gladfully replay official match. especially in 1/8 Edited: 2008-03-11 13:37
name	2008-03-11 13:02
	admins choice looks controversial, but is so big deal to replay it?
Cheimera	2008-03-11 12:47
	ef\|da^wd answer to your question why smiliar matches have not been replayd. Well maybe cause it waent known at the time. We cant go back 2 season a replay a game, this is happening now and the case were brought up directly. shai: i dident understand what your wrote there. so i cant reply to you
thaigo	2008-03-11 12:18
	shai, and same in english?
shai	2008-03-11 12:12
	Cheimera, I speak about player A and and player B, and that 1 of players from .ru is only the reason why I personally about it know. Also stop to distort, it you expose yourself at all from the best party. Also stop to play amorphous definitions, we consider a concrete case! And as to official games - they same official, as well as any others, because q2 already for a long time not official discipline!
CsLq2	2008-03-11 12:10
	Jou, at least my comments are not addicted to my nationality I'm just dissappointed. Whole community and the rules are nothing compared to admins crew
thaigo	2008-03-11 12:02
	ef\|da^wd, Where exactly has a similar situation happened? And if there has been similar situations, those games would have been replayed if someone just let admins know about it. And no, those games won't be replayed anymore because those games(if there is any) were played earlier. And ffs stop with the nationality issue already. You are just making yourself look like an idiot with that excuse. U russians remind me of old Poland, but luckily Polish ppl have come to their senses. Hopefully that happens to u too someday. MOTHERLAND POLSKA!!...no wait, MOTHERLAND RUSSIAAAAAAAAA http://www.endofworld.net/ Edited: 2008-03-11 12:05
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-11 11:29
	2 Cheimera yeah, you're right. it's hard to understand for me why Opti must re-play this game. I could understand it only if some1 will explain me why before in similiar situations matches were not re-played... Edited: 2008-03-11 11:31
Cheimera	2008-03-11 11:20
	problem with you guys is that you dont want to understand the reason, all you got in your head is "they took optimus win away and he is .ru so we bakc him up 100%" really sweet of you. But you dont even try to understand why. And yeh who are you guys anyway you havent gived a shit about anything else before and no suddenly you are all flaming cause a russian is involved and now you starts critizing the league and admins doing this only cause a finnish player is involved. When actually you are the ones with that only care what country the player comes from. As i said before is it so hard to have a normal game as a pogo - thaigo game, where exactly everything was equal and the outcome was the better player goes through to next round. Simple as that. And all your. How much advantage or how less it was cause of optimus being able to see turris binds and timers does not mather. Only thing that mathers is that there WAS unfair advantage that does not belong in an official game. Play fair and may the best player win by that and nothing else. I cant believe its so hard for you to understand
Hibru	2008-03-11 11:13
	Funeral of hearts
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-11 11:01
	2 wision oO mister "I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT OTHER POINTS OF VIEW" joined to our thread. Ya're welcome please enjoy! 2 kicia, syanid, Turri and others Last two days showed me that: 1. admins do not stress about opinions of other q2 ppl on scene (including kaby and BLAIZZEN). They just covered themselves by " Optimus unfair behaviour and en extra advanatge". THIS IS BULLSHIT 2. I am really wondering also by Turricanes position about this BULLSHIT. For me it looks like, "i just victim of current situation as Optimus". If you made a fault, and you want to re-play this match ask Optimus about it directly! Only in this case it would be "fair" for all 3. Current BULLSHIT made by finnish admin for finnish player Edited: 2008-03-11 11:08
LBA2	2008-03-11 10:52
	whole q2-community just know as well - that was the real game, so admins just put some shit on whole of US by that decide.. thx them.. however.. Opti will NOT rematching, so we can congrats Turri - welcome back in EDL! (applz) and BL in match against provi/purri
shai	2008-03-11 10:41
	Cheimera, you ridiculous. Really you listen only to opinion of people which you know personally or saw earlier? And I thought what more correctly to listen to sane and logic.
Lmty	2008-03-11 10:39
	"people i have never seen on a server or ever write a comment before" Nice one! That was a good picture of a toddler's mentality, listening only to those people you know in personality. Also, I have never seen you before either, and I've been involved into active playing on Russian q2scene since 2003, and even more into for-fun playing. Whatever. If you don't know Russian players' nicknames, try to use Google translation service for checking the dates of their registrations at Russian Quake II site. And speaking of the European ones, might be worth to find a way to find out who they are. Edited: 2008-03-11 10:44
Lmty	2008-03-11 10:36
	"since you are not opened for what we have to say.." Are you opened for the said comments below? Ohh, is someone trying to knock you, so-called headadmins, off your exalted pillars of glowing white character, fairness, and integrity? They should be punished by re-playing all their matches in their whole lives!
shai	2008-03-11 10:35
	REALLY GOOD answer of the excellent admin, and very wise. For completeness you have still forgotten to add - fuck u all, Im a king, or hesitate? And it is possible a modest question? Whom will you be without us, without players? All the same admins? You do not reflect on results of voting where 2/3 have voted not in your advantage?
Cheimera	2008-03-11 10:32
	90% of all the the ones against this desicion are people i have never seen on a server or ever write a comment before. How serious do you think ppl are gonna take you? lol
wision	2008-03-11 09:56
	"The common sense has left edl from the moment of when first 5-10 messages have remained without appropriate attention from headadmins" or maybe everything was explained hundreds of times on irc and in this news and you just keep looking other way.. we (admins) already spent enough time to make a decision and justify it couple of times, and we saw that there's no point of arguing with people since you are not opened for what we have to say..
shai	2008-03-11 09:46
	The common sense has left edl from the moment of when first 5-10 messages have remained without appropriate attention from headadmins. And they obstinately and blindly defend the point of view, thinking, that the return way already is not present, and that they will fall in our eyes. Just imo. Probably, they actually consider themselves right. btw rare mentally unhealthy person admits, that he is unhealthy. It is a hint. PS And, that I to tell wanted... fak u, Spilberg!!! (Comedy club) Edited: 2008-03-11 09:51
Jou	2008-03-11 09:19
	Zorre.
zorre	2008-03-11 09:03
	FFS! I take my eyes off the q2scene for some weeks and you do this?! You will have to frigging tell me when theres juicy flamewars going on!! NOOBS!
[UMUSTDIE]	2008-03-11 07:28
	here all can practice in english
kicia	2008-03-11 07:05
	ye men and principles ^^ main principle "men never ask about directions, thats just against principles..."
fpS	2008-03-11 07:00
	kicia, question of principle, just it. I hope u know what is it.
Cheimera	2008-03-11 06:59
	fps what are you talking about? Disrespected the whole .ru community? This is your problem guys you make it personal. You think this has something to do with nationality? Then every singel swedish player would have to replay their matches since Finland - Sweden are biggest rivals in exactly everything. Come get grip and stop all that bullshit about this being against some certain nationality. Thats just lame
kicia	2008-03-11 06:54
	fps, and who are you going to punish by not participating? for sure not admins
fpS	2008-03-11 06:34
	Turri, your position is safe, carry on! Edited: 2008-03-11 06:35
fpS	2008-03-11 06:31
	If both of players want to replay then match must be replayed. Its only one right decision! The rest is boolshit and totaly disrepect for optimus and whole .ru community. Wision long ago approve oneself poorly adequate admin, but i didnt expect same from sya and kicia. As for me - i wont participate is next edl seasons if this decision will stay as it. I wont be alone in my decision, and EDL wont become depleted since there are so many good .fi players and admins.
shai	2008-03-11 03:37
	thaigo. Yep.. He is ball Dirty ball
thaigo	2008-03-11 03:34
	Is that you on your avatar nrk? Nice!
nrk	2008-03-11 03:25
	Attentionwhores (c) Gerdt Edited: 2008-03-11 03:26
Jou	2008-03-10 17:49
	CsLq2 you apparently didn't understand what turricane posted. He said that he didn't tell the stuff to the admins, this was totally the admins choice. So don't blame him for being a crybaby, I would say that there are 100 other crybabys here that has posted some nonsense postings, one of them - you CsLq2.
check	2008-03-10 16:44
	great point slonken. Lets change EDL next year, play 2 semis with dami , provi, purri and sya and let the scene be content with that.
Goblin`	2008-03-10 16:21
	LoOLolool0ll0l0ll spam
Necr	2008-03-10 16:00
	Scooby thnx for a comment. )) Edited: 2008-03-10 16:01
shn	2008-03-10 15:55
	Let's try 300
rl	2008-03-10 15:45
	More more mooooooore
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-10 15:44
	so. admins connive at rules violation of fin player thaigo and punish opti for groundless conjecture cancelling game results. Pucture is clearing. tnx CsLq2
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-10 15:35
	u r talkin about rules violation.. but there wasn't it. there is only Conjecture of admin!
CsLq2	2008-03-10 15:25
	btw, about the "favourite players". Yep, i'm russian. But when RPG or some other ru. players were acting like a babies, i never said they're right. I think we all want to have a league without any "homie"-actions from admin's side. Btw, don't forget to re-play the games played by thaigo, when he also FOLLOWED THE RULES but don't wanted to give a permission for uploading his demos to ds.
zdufs	2008-03-10 15:14
	))))))))))) EDIT: removed the spam Edited: 2008-03-10 15:16
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-10 15:07
	i am almost sure that similiar situation has been before, even in current season. Does it mean that such games must be re-played also? OFCUZ NO! So why the current match should be re-played? Edited: 2008-03-10 15:11
Hibru	2008-03-10 15:00
	Slonken: accurately!
slonken	2008-03-10 14:53
	omg, who cares about this shit? does it really matter who wins? who ever wins this game will still be destroyed by purri, dami or provi. GL & HF.
CsLq2	2008-03-10 14:47
	Turricane crybaby What's more absurd, then blaming the winner that followed all the rules of league? Huge advantage? Come on, when your opponent gets YA, don't you know in a moment by using you EARS? It really could help if you're playing without sound. Don't fool yourself. If it's principial question - remember, THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED. Maybe Opti won't get any FP award, but he is the winner of that match. Edited: 2008-03-10 15:01
Scooby	2008-03-10 14:46
	honestly i dont get it... i mean ppl who r saying that it was helping optimus in any way... 1. its rather fuckin annoying to be spamed by somebody rather than helpful (i even removed all msgmode2 stuff from my duel cfg because its amazingly distracting) 2. how the fuck do u imagine it being helpful at all? i hear armor being taken by turricane ---> i use my own bind... its not like im deaf or something... 3. the only "hint" i can see in this "visible" msgmode2 by turricane is when it comes to timing the MH, QUAD, 666 .... since the both latter r tdm stuff... and mh... hmmm i hear the guy taking healthpacks i automatically press my +20 button... 4. other thing is that both players at this point of this league... r skilled enough and prepared well enough to have at least some basic knowledge about the game and timing; and therefore this kind of "msgmode 2 hints" dont change the final outcome of the game... 5. imagine timing your own stuff - wpns, armor etc + "adjusting" the timers to ur opponent's items being pikced up... i dont say that its something unreal but its difficult enough and while they r both nervous (i assume they both were despite what they will say/would say at the time of the game) i see it pretty much impossible... just my few points and a little analysis with good arguments behind it Edited: 2008-03-10 14:51
nrk	2008-03-10 14:19
	what happen?
the_doom	2008-03-10 14:18
	most RU Q2 servers based on tourney mod, and all knew that bug. thats why opti dont tell about them. hi did not know that turri does not know about this bug. i think.
kubi	2008-03-10 14:14
	200 : edit: I was first Edited: 2008-03-10 14:15
Gerdt	2008-03-10 14:14
	200 buHahAHhaha Kubi Own3D Edited: 2008-03-10 14:15
floyd	2008-03-10 14:14
	My opinion: I think it's pretty lame of optiMus not to tell Turricane he can see his messages. First thing I do when I see my opponent's messages is typing a say_team message myself. That way everything is immediately clear. However I do not know what is the best decision in this case - whether it is enough reason to have the match replayed. I would be tempted to say it's not a good idea, but I do respect the admin's decision and I think optiMus should respect that. By the way, all people claiming it's Turricane who made the mistake and not optiMus are really talking rubbish..
shn	2008-03-10 14:00
	no. 198 and counting.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 13:46
	you dont get, it doesent mather whats the players skill is, it could have been 2 first timers that played the game. It doesent mather WHO played the game
Hibru	2008-03-10 13:40
	http://shrani.si/f/R/18/3ZmjMwMX/stillretarded.jpg
da-be-da	2008-03-10 13:18
	IMO 1.Turri's fault for using say_team 2.Opti's fault for not telling he can see the massages 3.I don't think any of them made it on purposse 4.I don't know these massages can help other player or not,cuz im not even a average player,dueler 5.I don't know the decision is fair,but if im not wrong,opti disconnect two times on rdm2,the second time pause time was over,i dont remember the score but either way,turri agreed to replay rdm2 from the beginning,this show turri's is fair player. I dont know what the rules say about that,but it's not turri's fault for opti disconnect two times.. So maybe yeah,opti should agree to replay the match And most important thing:Timers should be forbidden Edited: 2008-03-10 13:22
Lmty	2008-03-10 13:06
	Cheimera, I understand your point, but sorry, I can't consider your analogy to be enough reasoned. Because reading your opponent's location isn't the same thing as ignoring his stupidly binded timers. Because Optimus is an enough good player to know his opponent's location by SOUND. Have you watched the demos, by the way? Regards, Lohmatiy.
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-10 13:04
	Chemeira, did u you saw demos of game we r talkin about? and another 1 moment - gtv server buffer always >= 1 minute.. rtfm..
Cheimera	2008-03-10 12:55
	Well i wouldent join a league where i get beaten by people who see my team messages and dont have manors enough to tell me that in the beginning so we can play a fair match. Oh hey whatta fuck ill join next year also and ill get a random mate on the server or gtv that telse me exact location of my opponent and how much healt and armor he got and when the item he time spawns etc. Hey whats the problem? doesent seem like you care anyway since THERE IS NO PROOF I DID THAT RIGHT??!! And hey wtf i dont give a shit not my problem i win unfair as long as i win wohoo hurray yippi fucking kayee!! you get my point already? Edited: 2008-03-10 13:00
Lmty	2008-03-10 12:48
	Wuddup! Speaking of the idea to represent players as Player A and Player B, you can't ignore the fact that these abstract players have their own 'properties' or whatever. Yes, this set of so-called 'properties' doesn't contain these players' nationality, but it DOES contain their skill levels. If a skilled Player A can hear the sounds his opponent Player B produces, the timer messages couldn't be considered at all. Even worse, as some people noticed, the Player B's timer messages can be used to confuse Player A. Anyway, let's understand we can't change admins' minds. And let's understand that, after this incident, EDL is no more a good league to join up because of its lack of fairness and considered decisions. Regards, Lohmatiy.
careem	2008-03-10 12:32
	kosovo n. 190
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-10 12:16
	The trust to league is undermined. Unimportantly what purposes were pursued by administrators, passing of such decision. Important that has turned out.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 12:11
	See you even say your comments can simple be skipped, cant be very much worthy to read there then, right
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 12:00
	u can simple skip my comments.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 11:50
	AlexyeNov: yeh and you dont need to constantly remind us of your lack of IQ
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 11:16
	Cheimera: all have already understood that you the boor, there is no sense constantly to remind it.
jay_bee	2008-03-10 11:09
	jou "And for you guys who are totally unknown to the scene and posting comments for about the first time - your pov is useless, as is mine about the match. This match is still between admins, Turri and Optimus. TY " you are wrong, man. Community's pov cannot be useless here. Eventually, this league is declared to be the entire europe community's league, or am i missing something? We of course cant make the decisions, but we at least can influence this process. Cos admins is not the gods, they're mortal people and they can make a mistake sometimes. But i beleive they are not insane and can see the facts, use the logic and feel the truth. So they can sometimes agree they made a mistake and fix it in time )
Cheimera	2008-03-10 11:00
	AlexyeNov: QUESTION OF THE YEAR: ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID OR DO YOU JUST MAKE FUN OF YOURSELF now i am actually gettin curious haha
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 10:55
	At me serious enough reason which is confirmed by characteristics of the monitors. And you speak about mythical subjective advantage from reading another's messages. Why you then do not consider, for example, the factor, what Moscow time = Finnish time + 1 and Opti could wish to sleep more, than Turricane?
Cheimera	2008-03-10 10:51
	AlexyeNov: again spare us from that kind of bullshit you know its irrelevant Jou: People discussing this mather is a really good thing, as thaigo said before we can see people really care about the scene. Yeh ok some of the ones posting here is just in it for the flame war, now thats pathetic. And ye Jou newcomers to the scene shouldent really be getting involved, true also. Edited: 2008-03-10 10:54
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 10:47
	hmm Whether to have the analog monitor advantage above the liquid crystal monitor? If turri play on analog , it was the big advantage because Opti play on LCD. p.s. We write here because not everyone can be simultaneously in IRC. Edited: 2008-03-10 10:51
Jou	2008-03-10 10:46
	Hey why can't you all just go to the #edl channel and discuss stuff, these posts - reposts are pathetic. The match was between Turricane and Optimus, why are you all discussing their game when they can come to a conclusion on their own. And for you guys who are totally unknown to the scene and posting comments for about the first time - your pov is useless, as is mine about the match. This match is still between admins, Turri and Optimus. TY
jay_bee	2008-03-10 10:42
	and ppl, yeah, plz stop flaming. It's really unpleasant and absolutely not necessary here.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 10:40
	Necr: ffs it doesent mather if its 2 skilled players or two not skilled players. Its Player A and Player B get that already admins have tried to get that in your ppls heads but you dont seem to get it. And you say: you dont stop everytime you play a noob to explain the game. yeh well probably if i play i noob its on a public server right? so spare me plz. Get this: It doesent mather how much or how less the advantage is, the main subject is that, THERE WAS ADVANTAGE and how good or bad you are to use it has no effect in the decision. Do you understand or do i have to draw a picture for you?
jay_bee	2008-03-10 10:38
	Cheimera ok, i understand your position and really respect it. thnx alot, gl
Necr	2008-03-10 10:33
	Cheimera. Seeing these messages DOESN"T give ANY real advantage to a skilled player so why the fuck SHOULD Opti pay his attention to that! You don't stop everytime when you play vs noob for example and start explaining the basics of the game. Why should Opti give a fuck about turri's mistake when this mistake has no real influence on the game itself? Still no one here gave ONE DAMNED fact about the real in-game-advantage Opti had.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 10:24
	jay_bee: Yeh ok you are countering me with: More ppl that are against the descision than supporting it. Maybe cause if i win a game i wanna feel good about it, i wanna feel that i really beated that guy 100% fair and there is nothing to doubt about that i am the better one. and also i would never play a game for an example if i got ping 17 and the other guy got ping 28, you get the point what kind of person i am? Thats how this league should be. obisously i am wrong about you ppl you wanna play your games this way feel free, but i dont. ill rest my case from now on ps: do not ffs start comparing q2 to fifa wold blabla or champions league its not the fucking same thing!Not for one single procent! Edited: 2008-03-10 10:26
jay_bee	2008-03-10 10:14
	2Cheimera Man, doesn't it seems strange, when your own opinion (and also opinion of 2-3, how much?) does not corresponding with the opinion of such big number of people. Or do you really think we all here are little kids, and simultaniously - opti's big fans? btw, i like turri's style of playing and it's a little pity for me he lost that match, he's stronger than opti, well at least not weaker. And he could be a one big trouble for purri/provi in the next stage. But the ref's decision is objectively very unfair. It's like cancelling the 1/8 FIFA world cup match due to such an advantage for winners as big widescreen above the loosers goalkeeper, translating the field panorama. Which of course can be an advantage - winners may use it to built their own tactic, damn bastards with no balls. And that assholes even didn't pay attention of the loosers on that, that's of course very unfair play, shame on them [img]http://i.smiles2k.net/aiwan_smiles/biggrin.gif[/img] do u realize what the winners' coach will say about any rematch? deleting all phrases with non normative lexicon it will be nearly followin "u kidding or what? we've been so long prepareing to this match, and do u realize - it's 1/8 worldcup! how can u say about rematch and steal our deserved win??"
Hibru	2008-03-10 10:10
	I can do this alldaylong.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-10 10:05
	according to admins decision Turri deserved his victory against Optimus by w/o. GG!
Cheimera	2008-03-10 10:03
	as i wrote...
kabysdoh	2008-03-10 09:57
	ok lemme now 2 things 1. do you know where the game was played? 2. do you know are timeouts on or off there? and if you don't then should optimus know are they on? Maybe he dunno how call time, i think it's possible if some ppl even dunno about 1v1 bug. Should he stop playing stay and type something on the language that he speak very poor? And who knows maybe turri answer np but the time was lost allready. Do you all like to stay and chat in offical duels? You blame optiMus for unmanner but you can't just think shit about his reasons. You can do what you want like cancell his game, kick him from league and all, but don't call him unmanner for nothing. 1st think then say. Or better stfu.
Cheimera	2008-03-10 09:37
	The most retarded fucking comments ive ever read has been written by many in this thread. You guys write something like: Turri should be polite and nice to optimus and give wo to optimus in this replay. You fucking idiots you start talking about being polite, and nice? Exactly what optimus should have done in the beginning, being a man and telling Turri: HEY DUDE I CAN SEE YOUR BINDS! Instead he dident and IF it was for advantage or not doesent fucking mather that was so fucking lame unrespectful vs turri to not tell he could see those binds. Start acting like men and respect your q2 mates and make sure the game gets played as they should be. Your like bunch of bitches. And optimus show us you got some balls and just kick turris ass again and get over with this
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 09:34
	i watch all demos ... i not see any situations where turri's messages was helps. I not see any good arguments to rematch.
thaigo	2008-03-10 09:23
	Chikale, How stupid can u be? It has been explained a thousand times that there is only one Finnish admin in this league and 3 headadmins made this decission and it doesnt matter what 2 normal admins think. Thats why they are called headmins. And as for the demos, there doesn't need to be any specific situation where optimus could have advantage of those messages. The whole 15 minutes/map is that situation.
shai	2008-03-10 08:48
	Stop a farce. If admins are so short-sighted, that cannot recognize groundlessness of the actions, and are so silly, that continue to insist on the - throw out them. We - a society, and they only its same part, as well as all of us. The further dialogues are useless. In fact for them fair play is play without us. Or I am mistaken? PS Mastah, all over again see demos, and then begin idle talk. You look the fool, arguing about what at all did not see! Own experience in this case on the tenth place, speech in fact goes about concrete matches! PPS With love, from Russia.. Edited: 2008-03-10 08:55
Mastah	2008-03-10 08:41
	Well I dont know much about dueling in nowdays since I dont playind duels about ~2years or even more but in my times knowing/seeing enemy stuff timing will not helps much cause you can hear opponent taking wpn/armor and timed by yourself and know where you can find him after 20/30 sec. Ofc I agree with Damiah about wpn drops to make fool enemy by sounds. Still I doubt optiMus has a HUGE advantage.. and its not opti's mistake but he could be a gentelman and say that he can see turri's binds so duels cant be 100% clear. Cause only fair duels makes player better wherever the outcome. Edited: 2008-03-10 08:48
chikale	2008-03-10 08:36
	thaigo, u still ignoring q2 community(more then 40 ppl) wrote against your decision(3 finn headadmins ignoring other admins like blaizz and kaby), i'm sure u haven't seen all demos, cause u even can't prove that turri's timer gave advantage to opti, just look that demos and try to find ingame situations where turii's timer gave advantage to opti, and look and jay_bee post, try to aprove it, stop talk us about unfair play. atm we can see just unfair judging
V!ct!M	2008-03-10 08:33
	Even though I don't play Q2 (and I was active player for a very short period of time), I have to write something... I cba to read all those comments (flame war) but tell me, did Turricane start with Q2 one month ago? Come one, someone who has been playing game for a few years, on high level (iirc), should know that. It's basic thing (even I, playing duels for few months, managed to make separated config for duels, as some of them were played on Tourney servers and opponent could've seen my msgs). To be honest I don't cheer for any of those players, I even haven't played against them and don't know them well. I am pretty sure that none of them can reach top4 (as many awesome players left). Why does Optimus have to pay for Turricane's incompetence? Edited: 2008-03-10 08:36
jay_bee	2008-03-10 08:29
	Oh, excuse me for flood, one more thing. I've seen all 3 demos and didn't find a single moment, when this [a20w30] messages could help opti take a frag or get an initiative, even theoretically. Well rdm2 and znt3 maps was totally lost by turri, and absense of this stupid messages could only steal a frag or two from opti's huge (compared to turri's) stack (theoretically, of course, and i think they even couldn't). dm1 map was so close, but i didn't find a single advantage-frag there, too. Maybe ref's did? So i'll gladly read their analysis. And ONLY IN THIS CASE - if we all agree that something helped opti to unfair win dm1 - we can talk about replay that single map with 2:0 in match and dm1 as the 3rd map in the match
thaigo	2008-03-10 08:24
	Russians and others should already stop with the idiotic nationality/friendship comments. Makes them just look stupid. I knew that this decission would make some whine, but still it's the best decission available in this situation.
jay_bee	2008-03-10 08:09
	Guys, let's take a closer look to zt2dm3 opti demo directly at the moment 12:10-12:00 up to the end. There is turri on a ladder from CG to YA, opti is about RA, waiting for it to eat one. Approximately in 12:03 opti eats RA and cautiously goes out of this RA tunnel, and at this moment 12:01(that is later by 2 looong seconds) turri sends [A20]. And what is it? Is this turri's YA or is this opti's RA, can anyone say something? But it's not all, right after that (precisely at 12:00) turri tryed to rail opti from that CA2YA ladder! It's very strange, i mean - if turry by this [A20] meant a opti's RA, so why the hell he sent it with so huge delay? And if he ment his YA, so why he stayed there and waiting for opti? ok, i mean nothing special, every strange situation maybe has a good and fair explanation, but one thing is obvious - noone can say that seeing those [A20] [W30] messages is such an advantage - it's the BIG question, not a fact. For example - as for me, they troubles me, breaking concentration, much more than helps. and maybe im not original with this opinion, but ref's decision is much more evidently unfair than fair
rzr	2008-03-10 08:08
	btw many top players defraud by timers.
ceLer1	2008-03-10 07:21
	If it is not friendship, while to explain that they without turri decided not to reckon a game...?? either friendship or as I wrote before, does not simply want the rus stage in leaders to see
rl	2008-03-10 07:08
	Even tho russians are right, it would be nice if you just stop spamming here sasha, oleg, jurij and so on...
kabysdoh	2008-03-10 07:06
	you are wrong when you tell that turri is admins' friend and that is why. their reason is wrong treatment of fair play, but not any nationalities fiendship etc. i dislike the desicion too, but let's speak about proper things plz, kthx.
rzr	2008-03-10 07:03
	optiMus > turri-timerz
ceLer1	2008-03-10 06:59
	Here it you noticed gloriously, if you are a friend, means you must not lose... and it is not correct. Kibre sport, it all the same is a dispute and above all things, here sporting interest, but not personal
chikale	2008-03-10 06:45
	admins like politics, iraq have chemichal(or nuclear) weapon bla bla bla, and absolutely not cares about community opinion, they need see only their "truth". guys who cares about what u writing here, EDL became admins decision league friend winners
kabysdoh	2008-03-10 06:15
	check: it was mine non-english comments censored. i know they are not allowed to post but they are funny... was funny Edited: 2008-03-10 06:17
ceLer1	2008-03-10 06:15
	He wants to be won back blaiz... and does not want at the same time, what then on him drove, he wanted and to eat fish and nakhuy to sit down
Blaizz	2008-03-10 05:56
	Jakkari, it sounds fun.. Turricane's position here is also interesting: he didnt complain, but yet he agreed on replaying the game, this can be called not complaying, but polite, passive, hidden accepting of replay after straight loose 3:0 by his OWN cfg mistake.. and now using own passivity he got second chanse.. do you agree this isnt fully fair either? nothing personal to turri, just some thoughts..
check	2008-03-10 05:51
	hehe , some ppl are deleting msg's, the counter is sometimes going backwards
{rip.savage}	2008-03-10 05:02
	Such decision is a mistake of administrators - 100 %. I so think. To change a match it be no point.
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 04:58
	yee... now we understand that with "fairplay" section in rulez we can doing anythink what possible by our fantasy
jakkari	2008-03-10 04:56
	rolf.. why you guys attack turricane now he didnt do anything wrong here (or atleast he didnt demand rematch).. i think admins made mistake here. Turricane: "i didnt know optimus could see my messages coz i couldnt see hes. and for those who are wondering did i complain, NO I DID NOT! this decission was made my admins who thougt the game was unfair."
{rip.savage}	2008-03-10 04:48
	It is nonsense!!! Optimus has won deservedly. If Turricane respects with itself and the contender it should not change fairly lost match.
Necr	2008-03-10 04:22
	The point was made that Turricane made that messages even on Opti's armor picks!!!! SO HE KNEW when Opti was PICKING ARMOR!!!! that's a terrible ununderstandable advantage turri had! Alarm! Maybe turri was using a wallhack? Or were ther just fucking SOUNDS? The same as Opti heard?
CoVell	2008-03-10 03:06
	Assassin vs Blaizz MUST BE REPLAY, that wasnt FAIRPLAY, HUUUGE PING ADVANTAGE WAS
ceLer1	2008-03-10 02:12
	This adminami however, they not kompitenty in this question, I do not know in general, who appoints such children of adminami. Not alone respecting itself admin, not posupil so.... as these. There are not words even who, one emotions
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 02:01
	our mate jay_bee was doing some reseaching by watching demos of the match. He finded that in some moments turr write messages with incorrect information - he is was not on place, but message was spoke about it I sure that admins must watching demos many times before make same decisions...
{42A}SERj	2008-03-10 01:59
	http://q2scene.net/edl/index.php?op=rules admins read rulez. Opti does not use the cheats. Turri must fixed his Cfg.
{42A}SERj	2008-03-10 01:56
	Turri like a girl. It"s Onlu Turri problems.
AlexyeNov	2008-03-10 01:27
	please vote http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424
careem	2008-03-10 00:52
	This is also connected with nationality and friendship between them. If this were happening to me or anyone else outside scandi they would give a fuck about it. Well, im not telling to every one that a replay match isnt right, i just told my personal opinion. 1 Question? How would have been if turricane won him 3:0 and if they had the same situation as is now, do you admins i mean mr admin syanid would fuck up your friend and give to optimus a replay game? PS: Im still wondering if Syanid would give me a replay match if i had the same situation. in the end... i didnt meant something bad as it looks like, but im just wondering how all this would look like... Edited: 2008-03-10 01:28
Hibru	2008-03-10 00:10
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCfQj59ESKU Turri vs opti in irl!
thaigo	2008-03-09 23:33
	There needs to be rules in order this league to work. All players that are in edl have accepted those rules when they have signed up. Admins are just the ones making sure everything goes by the rules. So far they have done a good job.
manu`	2008-03-09 23:30
	fairplay?!? it would be a "fairplay" if turri will not allow to replay the match and give opti a w/o for it. just my first thoughts after reading all of this...
k1ra	2008-03-09 22:32
	Hei, guys. It's ridicule. Tell me, DO U WANT that EDL will continue? Making this unfair decision u make EDL uppopular. How many players will NOT play anymore in case of this??? Turri loose. Opti is a winner. 3-0. It's a fact. No need to repplay. It's just an OLD GOOD GAME QUAKE2. Why we are discussing here like at Olympic Games??? Were will be NEXT EDL. Turii can take re on it. All simple, no need to be so ridicule and unfair. 2 Turri: just keep yours respect if u are really SKILLED PLAYER. 2 EDL admins: it's pity to see all this in edl. quake2 is not so popular in the world. At the end, there will rest only u in q2. All others will find something more FAIR Edited: 2008-03-09 22:39
BlackPH	2008-03-09 22:11
	Let`s community resolve this situation. We need free voting! )
kolt	2008-03-09 20:34
	punishing optimus 4 turricane's mistake nice shit btw. where is wision's .fi flag in crew-page? Edited: 2008-03-09 20:36
Cheimera	2008-03-09 20:24
	hahahah lol DM
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 19:47
	2 DM n1 kopti eshe scuko!
DM	2008-03-09 19:39
	a dialogue between turricane and optimus : I'm sorry. Why should I say I'm sorry? If I hurt you, You know you've hurt me too. But you get lost inside your tears, And there is nothing I can do, 'Cause I get lost inside my fear That I am nothing without you. You're angry. Why shouldn't you be angry? With what we've been through, Well I get angry too. Why should we have taken so long To be looking inside of our mind? Everything we tried went wrong. Are we worried 'bout what we might find? Edited: 2008-03-09 19:40
cyt	2008-03-09 19:20
	typically i'm agains any nation bullshit but... i suppose none of this (either the discussion or the decision itself) would happen if Turri wasn't from Finland. Opti acting like a prick, can't blame him for this, his working for his opinion... but turri made a mistake and he should pay for it.
Praf	2008-03-09 19:13
	I havent read all of it, but imho: on one hand i understand that the admins had to take a stance at this, but as far as i am concerned the game should not be replayed, far or less fair once the countdown is over there will be a score and it should be final... at least thats my oppinion.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 19:12
	BTW demos of this discussed match ya could find over there: http://quake2.com.ru/downloads/demos/537/ after watching them does some1 has a doubt of "unfair" Opti's behavior against Turri?
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-09 19:00
	true
DM	2008-03-09 18:55
	hahah roflmao :]]]]] wtf is this ? these messages which turricane used, doesnt help to any good player it has no point. and the admin decision is very lame and cannot be proven. The only thing i understand here is - that turricane lost the match, which, he thought, that he can win easily and after loosing it, he simply whined to his fellow admins, and then, they dicided to find some shit that does not match the rules in the game turricane vs optimus.. and guess what )) they found something, its not something, its a stupid mistake by turricane him self ) why the fuck to use timer msg's in duel ? ) you can simply bind x "play sounds/armor20.wav", anyway this looks so shitty and admins put some dirt allover themselves and it looks so lame from turricane side... man you lost, you should agree with the loss and face the truth, you are not that good as you thought that you are and now loosing second time you would be in the center of laug and i dont see anything unfair in their match... i see only fucking arround by the admins and friends... the messages are not forbidden... and if it was against the rules, the one who should be punnished, should be turricane. IT IS HIS FAULT and optimus i believe didint give a shit about those messages... so why the fuck he should say something in that case ? And guys I dont know how you can punnish a man for another man's fault ? SABOTAGE !!! Edited: 2008-03-09 19:03
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 18:28
	2 Gravgon in Russia we have only "unfair-advantage- players"
ceLer1	2008-03-09 18:28
	And the small group of otmorozkov, which builds from itself gods of q2, simply sits there. Or are afraid of you that opti in this EDL will tear off zhopu all? And there will be championom not English-language, but Russian...
Scooby	2008-03-09 18:28
	i just noticed this news while i was looking for assasin vs blaiz update DDDDD and yea... i did read the entire thing... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? :]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] next time replay games after you find out that people use timers without even using msgmode2 at all DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD feel sorry for you optimus edit: nothing aggainst you turricane... but this is fuckin insane period! Edited: 2008-03-09 18:29
shai	2008-03-09 18:20
	You simply do as you more conveniently. And you at all did not have an idea on similar result. Make a fool further . But it any more a EDL. It is someting like As-I-have-told-and-will-be. Does smell a petty tyrant, it does not seem to you? PS great people spoke: Understanding is a two-way street. (Roosevelt) and Whatever you cannot understand, you cannot possess. (Goethe) So, you do not want to understand, because you on other side of road GL
Gravgon	2008-03-09 18:17
	What surprises me the most is the HUGE drama made about this "unfair advantage". When a player gets beaten by an opponent with a ping twice lower as his, it hardly gets mentioned. A casual "ping rape!" comment and that's it. Nobody ever thinks about a replay. Or let's take an example in the TDM leagues: when the quadrunner of UK team lags for 1 minute, the game cannot be replayed and almost everyone agreed on that (righfully). But you'll still agree that Russia had an unfair advantage, right?
Necr	2008-03-09 18:04
	Well, Jakkari, as far as it is now I guess this is so much a TOP-QUAKE-SECRET that I don't deserve to know it. I can understand if we are speaking about some kind of COMFORT - you know - pay less attention to your ears and that stuff - but we can't say that this was a UNIQUE advantage that can't be gained through the games's essential resources. That way it's not a cheat as it was stated.
jakkari	2008-03-09 17:51
	well i cant be sure did opti use those messages in his avantage.. but atleast i can use those messages to help my game
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 17:51
	2 Necr i asked the same question to Turri Whatever, i think only one way to make this fair if Turri will ask Opti to re-play those games... 114 ). Edited: 2008-03-09 17:51
cure	2008-03-09 17:46
	oy, for all you noobs 8) bind x "$mm weapon 30 [%l];play weapon30.wav" set mm "say_team" set mm "echo" use a script to toggle mm and you're fine, its not new, people used it back in 99 just for osp. (c) jaydee (dutch player). edit: on a side note: jaydee made the mouse3 weapon/ammo/teammsg toggle script as well, though other people claimed or got credit for it. Edited: 2008-03-13 19:04
Necr	2008-03-09 17:41
	Jakkari. PLZ - there are so many OVERskilled players here plz tell me for my peaceful sleep: What advantage did Opti gain from "armor20" message when he HEARS the sound as well.
jakkari	2008-03-09 17:39
	Necr... why opti didnt say that he can see turris messages?? and i think opti receive little advantage there.. But i think admins make mistake there.. because i dont think that turri could have won that match anyway.. opti was articulately better that night
kubi	2008-03-09 17:37
	110
Necr	2008-03-09 17:36
	Careem. It's in no way worse than speaking about Opti's idea of intentional not-speaking. If (of course) we are speaking about player-A and player-B, not russian and finnish player. Fake messages are not restricted, why not to use them? That's possible. By the way any YOUR ideas about Opti's "unjustified advantage"? What was it?
careem	2008-03-09 17:35
	rl bravo. =>>>>>>>>>
Gerdt	2008-03-09 17:34
	w/o or replay?
arch^	2008-03-09 17:32
	106
AlexyeNov	2008-03-09 17:30
	rl you are absolutely right.
careem	2008-03-09 17:29
	Necr: "What if Optimus was thinking that these messages were there to trick him?" =>>>>> zomfg, zomfggg i mean omfgggg hahaha =]]]]] Edited: 2008-03-09 17:33
rl	2008-03-09 17:25
	Well I think they should replay this game ONLY if optimus agree for that, if turricane can't configure his cfg right it's his problem tho, however fair play is a very impotant thing...
check	2008-03-09 17:19
	thaigo, u seem to take it so personal Theres a difference in some1 making a discutable decision or some1 having bad intentions. U seem to think the last of Opti. MB im naive, but i dont think Opti had bad intentions.
v00	2008-03-09 17:16
	better loose this game turri best regards
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-09 17:11
	100
Necr	2008-03-09 17:09
	Thaigo. Don't you hear your enemies picking armor and weapons as well? Especially about ztn3 and rdm2? And with all respect to your and top players' skills I have doubts that you have a problem with judging enemy location when it sounds like armor-weapons? Am I wrong? Especially when we take such maps as they were on the list. Edited: 2008-03-09 17:18
thaigo	2008-03-09 17:06
	Necr, u obviosly dont know much about dueling. Ask any top duel player if seeing enemys timings is advantage or not. It is a huge advantage cause there are not much items to time in any map and with those timers u know exactly where your enemy is going and u can also time the weapons yourself eventho u dont even pick it up yourself.
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-09 16:52
	skill and power of will advantage???
Necr	2008-03-09 16:47
	Damiah. Thnx for an answer. But these things with drops are only personal tricks, although widely used - they aren't an essential part of the game. I don't think - the fact that Turri was unable to trick Opti a pair of moments - is a good reason to replay 3 games. As you may also see in demos - this fact (drops) didn't play a VERY important role in the match. You know - it's like to say that turri's double-jump alias wasn't working well - and that was his disadvantage. THaigo. Sorry but your statement lacks FACTs and real thoughts. Maybe you will say something really making sense? What was opti's advantage? __________________________________ OH YES! Shai's really making a point. What if Optimus was thinking that these messages were there to trick him? That is not an impossible Trick if you think about that. In this way the decision's starting to look REALLY STUPID. What if that was turri's trick? Edited: 2008-03-09 17:01
kabysdoh	2008-03-09 16:33
	I don't support such a 'fair' decision about opti vs turricane match, and I ain't gonna to say shit to force opti to play the match. Enjoy this season without him. HF. still i stay in the crew like a match admin Edited: 2008-03-09 16:54
shai	2008-03-09 16:25
	btw, nobody answered me, and i repeat: If you assume, that turri had a unintentional information leakage, so why to you to not assume, what it wished to deceive opti by these messages? Or all have suddenly gone blind? What for the predetermined attitude?
careem	2008-03-09 16:09
	zomfg, you are wrong, dj bobo is a q2 player!!!1
Damiah	2008-03-09 16:08
	ef\|da^wd: For example if you try to fool the enemy by dropping some weapons. If he can see the drop message that doesnt work at all. And that gives some advantage for him.
the_doom	2008-03-09 16:08
	> decission was made MY admins who thougt the game was unfair. nice mistake.
thaigo	2008-03-09 16:06
	ef\|da^wd, I think just about any top duel player would say it helps a lot.
fOod	2008-03-09 16:06
	turri piece of shit. shame on u.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 16:00
	2 Turri: Could ya please explain, can your say_team messages give Opti an extra advantage?
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 15:57
	2 Cajeem: DJ Bobo is not an edl player
Turricane	2008-03-09 15:57
	Well, hear it comes, for those u want to hear my story of this shit. i didnt know optimus could see my messages coz i couldnt see hes. and for those who are wondering did i complain, NO I DID NOT! this decission was made my admins who thougt the game was unfair. and in my own oppinion, yea well seeing other ppl's timings/drops helps your playing. i really dont understand why opti couldnt say anything about this. mby its my own fault when i didnt know. i hope this is enough for everyone.
shai	2008-03-09 15:57
	Comedy of absurdity. All to shoot
Necr	2008-03-09 15:52
	Plz, Guys tell me what could that messages be used for by Optimus?
zbone	2008-03-09 15:49
	kicia, please tell what to do to your father first, if you have one ofc. Thanks Edited: 2008-03-10 06:49
ceLer1	2008-03-09 15:47
	And that Turricane does talk nothing, or for him all decide, and he will be quiet? Turricane do you agree with what you lost honestly or you consider that optiMus won not honestly?
the_doom	2008-03-09 15:46
	so, turri decided winner, but hi dont win any map. is it fair play? in the place turri i'll cant take this win. ps: sorry 4 bad english
careem	2008-03-09 15:43
	Optimus: Dj bobo would say respect your self and play again. kosovo
SMOLENSK	2008-03-09 15:32
	LoL!!! europeans sux ^))) opti u r right and can do what u want. Don't play with him - it's my decision. bullshit...
kadz	2008-03-09 15:32
	That's Turricane own trouble. And give me the rule about team_says in this champ. So that is very funny. Turri, who is your friend in admin group?
Necr	2008-03-09 15:27
	Sorry. But I don't understand ONE thing. What is the advantage of seeing these messages when all this stuff can be clearly HEARD. Turricane had no details in his messages other than "WEAPON30" and "ARMOR20". In what way could they be used for a HUGE Opti's advantage. Give me - a noob - a hand please.
AlexyeNov	2008-03-09 15:27
	kicia: You wrong. As i known, you was not involve blaizz and kaby when u was approve your decision.
kicia	2008-03-09 15:21
	zbone if you don't know smth, then stfu. All admins were involved in this discussion here in comments and only one of them disagrees with the decision. eot. Edited: 2008-03-09 15:55
Foen	2008-03-09 15:20
	Alexander_The_U: It is not like this duel.cfg is widely used. On European tourneyserver have team.cfg (?) as a default and you can play duels without a problem, so no reason to vote duel.cfg. And in Scandinavia, almost every server have always had Battle, so how can you know something like this if you don't ever need to play on a server which use duel.cfg? At least I didn't... so i guess that makes me a noob Edited: 2008-03-09 15:21
zbone	2008-03-09 15:12
	To sum up: 1. You have evidence that by turri's fault opti had access to information he COULD use and turn it to his advantage 2. You DON"T have evidence that opti used this information 3. 2 out of 5 EDL admins wasn't actually involved into discussion on this topic and actively disagree with this decision 4. 3 out of 3 EDL admins voted for this decision actually live now in Finland From my perspective discarding match result punishing opti is the same as you sue a man for rape just because he has dick and potentially can rape someone.
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-09 15:11
	1). OSP Tourney MOD was released at 1999. today 2008 3 9. 2008-1999 = 9. 2). "say_team" works like as "say" in FFA, Duel modes. So.. Say_team is only for Team Play modes. Where 2 teams. 3). Players never know this simple things for this 9 yrs? 4). If Turri know it, why he still to use say_team playing with duel match mode? 5). If opti or any other player will use kill command, then his opponent will be cheater?
Foen	2008-03-09 15:08
	You can't say that this is Turricanes fault in anyway. It is not like everybody is playing on tourney servers which use duel.cfg. So there are tons of ppl who dont even know that say_team commands goes to your opponent, if tourney is using duel.cfg. Tbh that is like the stupidest thing I have ever heard about server configs It really should be removed from every server, to avoid this kind of stuff in a future. About this whole mess, Im just glad Im not involved with this anyway, because I don't know what is right thing to do. But the fact is that optiMus should have said that he can see Turricanes messages, but is it enough to replay the game I dont know. But accusing Turricane here, that is just stupid and unnecessary. Shugger: afaik optiMus is using echos and those wont give you any info to console, so no, Turricane didnt get any timer messages from him. Edited: 2008-03-09 15:24
optiMus	2008-03-09 15:05
	I badly know English, on it I shall be not verbose.. I here do not see any advantage, its these messages only distracted me, I and without it hear sounds of the reservation... Instead of has pointed at it of attention during game as to me had no time for it, my all attention has been aimed at game and never would think, that because of it there will be so much problems
shuugghh	2008-03-09 14:58
	hehe , HOW ABOUT TURRICANE did he saw , that OPTIMUS used timers or he played without ?....
ceLer1	2008-03-09 14:54
	Victory of opti in this game is synonymous, a replay will be toko humiliation for turricane
chikale	2008-03-09 14:49
	absolutely unrespect to opti from admins, turri's fault names opti - cheater, still unprejudiced??
thaigo	2008-03-09 14:48
	ef\|da^wd, u have your own opinion about this and I have my own opinion about this. And btw. Nice to see so many comments about this. It shows that q2 scene is still alive and ppl care Edited: 2008-03-09 14:49
shai	2008-03-09 14:46
	omg, fault turri=cheating opti. Marasm.
shai	2008-03-09 14:44
	And tell, that us does not arrange, that has won opti. isnt it?
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 14:44
	2 thaigo Turri's defeat, is his own fault noone else
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 14:43
	in my opinion this situation is Turri's fault, not Optimus....That's why i'd like to see his comments over here.
thaigo	2008-03-09 14:42
	Gravgon, would it be better that a player can win by (in my opinion) cheating? If optimus decides not to replay that is his own fault and noone elses. Bottomline: Player that don't want to use those messages for his own advantage, would have told to admins about it. Player who doesn't tell, uses those for his own advantage. Edited: 2008-03-09 14:43
kubi	2008-03-09 14:41
	60
Cheimera	2008-03-09 14:36
	why what do you need turri to say?
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 14:36
	one more time...i'd like to see here Turri's comments about this.....
Cheimera	2008-03-09 14:34
	Yeh it will be alot more rougher for optimus to win a straight 3-0 vicotry. Here we go again, but would he had a 3-0 victory even though he wont see his timers this time? Alot of ways to look at this. For me i really hope optimus wins 3-0 so that everybody would just stfu about this already. If turri wins imagine the flame war...
shai	2008-03-09 14:33
	Well, I spoke only about treatment refereeing
brvheart	2008-03-09 14:28
	Can I ask a question? Is it possible to distribute a lot of fake messages (for example timers, armors) to distract your opponents?
shai	2008-03-09 14:28
	imo no reason to replay this game. no rules were broken. We not lawyers and here not court to treat concepts. what done - is done. replay is possible indefinitely, and to absurdity it is possible to reduce any trifle
Blaizz	2008-03-09 14:21
	omg, headadmins aint biased to .fi players, its full nonsence, stop talking about this. but the whole decision.. well, it has been made already, no reason to argue about it. 'Is it THAT big problem to play that game again?' - actually it IS, at least for Opti. all ppl know turri is really experienced player, i'd bet it will be 5x harder to get straight 3:0 victory again. all can be if both players are more/less equal like they are (all 3 games were close). as addition Opti will be stressed after this big debates. that's why yes, somehow im sure this match should be really hard for Opti to replay..
Alexander_The_U	2008-03-09 14:13
	it's looks like finnish nationalism
Muerte	2008-03-09 14:12
	nubs from all country's united to approve unfair behavior supported by #euroq2l and #ndml admins this is sad day in q2 history
Cheimera	2008-03-09 14:06
	Shai: There are so many ways to look at this, thing is i understand the ones saying it has to be replayed and i understand the once saying optimus shouldent be punished. For me its more than clear that the game should be replayed. To bad shit happens optimus you should have said something. As a game with an advantage like that is so big that there wouldent have been any point for turri to play it at all. I know if i see times spammed from my opponent even though i would get annoyed by them or tryed to ignore them to be fair i know i would have used them to my advantage, how can you not they are popping up on my screen as chicks in my bed. Conclusion: no mather what, no mather how much it hurts one of the players, the main point is: may the best player win. And in this case we cant say the best player won cause of the advantage. Now this is just my opinion, even if admins wouldent have noticed what happend imo every singel one that participate in this league should have manors and balls to say hey man i can see your timers i dont wanna win like that. simple as that everything else is just bullshit and bad behaviour.
shai	2008-03-09 13:57
	syanid, rematch already not a fair play 4 opti
Gravgon	2008-03-09 13:53
	Syanid > Probably yeah, there was no good solution as one way or the other, a player has an advantage. But I still don't like that part in the news "Optimus should have told Turricane or the admin of the game about seeing those binded messages, but he did not". It makes it look like optiMus committed a mistake while he did NOT. So now what will happen is that optimus feel offended and treated like a cheater and probably won't play the game anyway. I don't think it's an improvement compared to what the situation was before.
chikale	2008-03-09 13:51
	lol again and again. hi's advantage. prove it, mb just u with syanid wanna to see int these team_say messages opti's advantage. cause turii lost 0:3,
zdufs	2008-03-09 13:51
	3.2.4 Players should behave and play fair. SHOULD is not the same as MUST so this rule means nothing and now find some other "rule" if you can to backup your decision "admins"
shai	2008-03-09 13:47
	Cheimera, u r talkin' about pure skill? How it to define? Perhaps, time counters? Or misunderstanding by the player of such skill (turri), that his team_say's r visible? Or rules which amorphously admins can treat in own way (fair play)? Please, read closely! If you assume, that turri had a unintentional information leakage, so why to you to not assume, what it wished to deceive opti by these messages? So, it would be desirable to hear your comments, misters anew.
syanid	2008-03-09 13:45
	Gravgon in our opinion this was the only decision we can do in this situation, ofcourse we knew there will be lots of whines and people disagreeing with the decision, but what good is an admin who can't make decisions because they are afraid of consequences? The game was not fair, the rematch is only way to make it fair.
Spam	2008-03-09 13:44
	Nice argument by headadmin kicia.. Is it THAT big problem to not re-play that game? have you asked Optimus? Dimmo: standing behind what? standing behind something thats not against the rules and is totaly wrong? Time for admins to ádmit they are wrong? Thigo: ever thought about that Optimus maybe never read/saw/cared about what Turri wrote in say_team cause he was in the midle of his game? Stop say that he is the bad guy untill you proved it.. Edited: 2008-03-09 13:45
thaigo	2008-03-09 13:42
	zbone, there u see the difference. U told about it, optimus didn't. There comes only reason to my mind why optimus didn't. It's because he wanted to use this to advantage.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 13:42
	i don't understand, if Turri made his fault. Why optimus should pay for this? This decision looks like total disrespect to edl players.... Edited: 2008-03-09 14:34
Gravgon	2008-03-09 13:41
	Of course I know that syanid. But all i'm saying is PEOPLE can quickly assume you were biased. I know they'd be wrong but it's still a good reason to be careful when you take such a decision. And imo you weren't careful enough here since I don't see a good reason to back it up.
zbone	2008-03-09 13:39
	thaigo, I don't have an idea. Actually, when I was in the very same situation I was really annoyed with this spam and I was telling about that but both times opponent didnt manage to remove his say team from config. Anyway you should ask opti about that.
aGent	2008-03-09 13:39
	true chikale
chikale	2008-03-09 13:37
	syanid, must be, sure. btw prove that opti used turri's mistake in game? can u? where is your line of fair game, and fair game for opti or turri? bull shit again mb' next time u should make only finnal game with finns? turri damiah as example? for sure fair game with same pings and etc. no more arguments to aprove who right who wrong, it'll be convenient for u
syanid	2008-03-09 13:35
	The rules can't cover every aspect of a game because it would be impossible. Gravgon, as a long time admin yourself, you should know better that there are no such a things in admin decisions as nationalities of the players, only player A and player B. Unfair victory would just leave a question mark on this game and a room for what ifs.
aGent	2008-03-09 13:34
	WE WANT GRAVGON AS A MAIN ADMIN OF EDL !
[UMUSTDIE]	2008-03-09 13:32
	LOL
Werwolf	2008-03-09 13:32
	Completely agree with Spam Edited: 2008-03-09 13:33
thaigo	2008-03-09 13:32
	Zbone, why didn't optimus tell about such annoying thing to admins then? I would be so annoyed for spamming messages during my game. Wouldn't u?
Dimmo	2008-03-09 13:28
	Good to see admins doing their job and standing behind it. optimus
zbone	2008-03-09 13:27
	Lame decision. There should be a really huge reason to discard match result. I don't see how these timers can be used to make this game turned into 3-0. There are so few armors that can not be heard from the opposite end of the map. I would never replay clearly won game under such circumstances. I can only concur with opit's decision do not replay this game. Also I believe each player feeling this decision is wrong and unfair towards optimus should leave this league unless this desicion is discarded. Edited: 2008-03-09 13:29
aGent	2008-03-09 13:24
	omg - that decision is a total mistake , how could u guys be so unfair...., u should cancel it as soos as possible ! Edited: 2008-03-09 13:24
Gravgon	2008-03-09 13:20
	This decision is bullshit. And you know it You think it's the fairest thing to do but you don't put yourself in the place of optiMus there. Sure he had an advantage and the game wasn't 100% fair. Is it his fault? You're giving him a sanction to punish something that has never been established as a mistake in the first place. All you can come up with is his supposed lack of fairplay. No rule punishes that. So far the only rule you've given is this: "1.4 Any behavior taken by a player to intentionally harm the league or one of its matches can be punished." Now do you really think optiMus didn't tell Turricane about the say_teams to "intentionally harm the league"? Better, can you prove it? Have you thought that maybe he didn't think it would be such a big deal not to tell his opponent about it? You didn't. You can only _assume_ optimus' bad intentions. You just took this decision out of your ass because you thought it was unfair to Turricane. And maybe it is but you cannot blame optiMus for that, let alone PUNISH him for that. Normally all "unfair advantages" one can get in a game are supposed to be covered under the cheat section in the rules. This was not and instead of coping with your league's rule hole, you preferred to cancel a player's victory. Not only it's wrong, but it's also a bit stupid since people can easily think you took this decision to favour your favourite in this game (yeah it happens that Turricane is Finnish and the head admins of this league are very connected to Finland, aren't they?). It should have made you even more cautious to take a sanction with no rule to back it up. EDIT: Now there is another rule you're coming up with: "3.2.4 Players should behave and play fair". That's a nice sounding rule but it would be even nicer if someone had defined what exactly "fair" means? Does it mean "fair according to the head admins' mighty judgement" or "fair just as the most badass pirate cruising the oceans would judge" ? It's not very clear, is it... Edited: 2008-03-09 13:23
syanid	2008-03-09 13:16
	Chikale: the fair rule: 3.2.4 Players should behave and play fair.
thaigo	2008-03-09 13:15
	1.3 The spirit of the rules always prevail on the letter. 1.4 Any behavior taken by a player to intentionally harm the league or one of its matches can be punished. I would point out these rules. Opti had a huge advantage, knew about it, but didn't say anything. Spam, they might all live in Finland, but only one is Finnish. I don't think this decission has anything to do with nationality anyway. Optimus using this advantage cannot be proven, cause he doesn't have those messages, but im sure he still used those in his advance. How can I be so sure about that? Why else would he not tell admins that he can see those messages. If I didn't want to use that advantage, I would be annoyed from those messages.
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 13:14
	ha ha finnish mafia in edl Why don't we see the Turri's (who is ofcourse from SUOMI also) opinion over here? Edited: 2008-03-09 13:19
kicia	2008-03-09 13:09
	Is it THAT big problem to play that game again?
zdufs	2008-03-09 13:08
	i totally agree with spam
Hibru	2008-03-09 13:06
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCfQj59ESKU Turri vs optimus in irl..
chikale	2008-03-09 13:04
	show us all your "fair" rules, u haven't typed us yet, for next time be ready for regame and sure, prove opti used turri's timer in game. dj bush wannabe Edited: 2008-03-09 13:04
Spam	2008-03-09 13:00
	thaigo: no fins? i can say there is 3 of them.. the only thats active, wision, syanid and kicia. They all live in finland. How can this be Optimus fault when he didnt do anything wrong? he didnt brake any rule. plz show me the rule that says: "the player who doesnt report his opponents stupidity gets punished" Turri lost, Turri was the one who made this error, he was the one who used say_team, he wasnt forced to do it, anyway he used it, clearly his fault, not Optimus.
AlexyeNov	2008-03-09 12:47
	thg: edl not need rus admin if edl team not asked him about this decision.
thaigo	2008-03-09 12:45
	This is the only right thing to do. It was total disrespect from optimus towards admins and mostly towards turricane. Imho it's all optimus's own fault. This advantage that he had, is huge in duels. Spam, there is one finnish admin in this league. One russian, one zcech, one polish and one ukranian. Edited: 2008-03-09 12:46
Cheimera	2008-03-09 12:34
	I would never want to win a game with an advantage, i would like to win the game by pure skill, and really deserve the win or i woulden feelt any plesure by winning. So i really dont understand why optimus dont want to replay the game. I would have replayed the game even if admins wouldent make it happen. And thats should be obvious for everyone
AlexyeNov	2008-03-09 12:28
	and... why turri vs opti still as sheduled ? Opti not want to rematch, so ?
AlexyeNov	2008-03-09 12:27
	please puts purri vs dami to final now. we all wants to see this match. why we need wait?
check	2008-03-09 12:26
	Another z3 match from optimus than, so replay is fine by me PS dont get all so worked up over this replay PS2 tho i do agree with spam, opti wasnt at fault Edited: 2008-03-09 12:30
syanid	2008-03-09 12:24
	Everyone will have their own point of view and it usually is behind their own favorite player. Admin can not have a favorite player or cannot make decisions in favor of any player deliberately. Try not to be narrow minded and think this matter from an point of view where there is just Player A vs Player B. If now Player A has the advantage of seeing the timings of Player B (Without Player B knowing of it), then the game has not been fair and the victory of the player A is not deserved. Now when the victory is not clear and deserved, only choice is to play the game again under conditions where such advantages do not exist.
Muerte	2008-03-09 12:23
	only possible and right decision from admin team lowlife players for sure don't understand decision but that is nothing new...
[IS]n3xT	2008-03-09 12:20
	hm looks like popularity of league goes down
Cheimera	2008-03-09 12:19
	i get the admins point absolutly. A fair game where the best player shall win, and shall win by skill and tactics not because the other play has an advantage that turri is not aware off. To be able to se enemys timers in a duel is LIKE THIS BIG ADVANATGE! Ask any top dueller. So for me, not cause i am FIN or anything to do who has been playing. But a game with that kind of disadvantage to the other player shall never be accepted. And optimus even had 50% lower ping, so kind of much advantage for a singel player. Good descision and optimus kick his ass again and show all the doubters that your place is along the top duellers in this scene
chikale	2008-03-09 12:00
	new rules for admin's favorites, double standart, so fashionably. dj bush wannabe? u'r on right way, gl in admin's fair play
ef\|da^wd	2008-03-09 11:52
	looks like that some1 from admins team is full of shit Should we congrat Turri with his deserved victory?
optiMus	2008-03-09 11:45
	Delirium.. In my opinion it is simple disrespect for me... replayd the game I shall not be - essentially. All your reasons are not proved.. Do not wish to see new, good players in "your" league - your right, I shall not be registered more...
Gip5y	2008-03-09 11:23
	haha n1
Spam	2008-03-09 11:19
	Probably the shittiest decicision an admin ever done in q2 history since its ALL WRONG. How can the guy who didnt do anything wrong be the one who did something wrong? it was turri who was stupid to use those say_teams. I dont even see any rule that says "the game must be played under a fair conditions" If the opponent is that stupid using seeable say_teams its his fault, not Optimus. Why should Optimus have told turri or an admin about that he saw his say_teams? there is no rule about that neighter, the game is about to win, not to be nice. Or does it have anything to do with that the admins are fins? and turri is fin? Btw.. u have proof that opti could see those say_teams but do you have any proof that Opti did read/use them in his advantage? I doubt it... plz show us them befor u judge. Edited: 2008-03-09 11:25
shai	2008-03-09 11:15
	Bull shit. Do not lead up game to the point of irrationality. Or appoint games replayed when at one of them scratched his ass
Platon	2008-03-09 10:59
	nowadays opti is better then turri so it will be only a formality
Durklas	2008-03-09 10:44
	i hope they will play fare game now ;] gl turri
zdufs	2008-03-09 10:40
	THIS SUX

New comment

You have to register/login first. Register

^^^

0.064