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	EDL #20 IRC: #EDL \| Demos: http://demos.q2players.org Sign ups: off

Broken rule

2010-02-14 15:11 | kicia

By organising EDL we truly hope that we are doing it for the players, so we are giving our time to please you and we are trying to do our work. Of course we know we can't please everyone, but we keep trying to make it as smooth and fair as possible (which is not as easy as it sounds). That's why we created rules.

Unfortunately not every person plays by rules and as a matter of fact flag

Thaigo has broken the rule number 1.4. One of the general rules, which says: "Any behavior taken by a player to intentionally harm the league or one of its matches can be punished".

It all started in 2x2? league when Thaigo's demos were uploaded to demosquad. Thaigo started blackmailing flag

wision if he won't remove uploaded demos from DS, he will ban wision on every possible server (wizards, exhale, scarab, okidoki, quaek, euroq2l) where he has admincode and no q2scene league games (2x2?, EDL, EuroQ2L, etc..) will be allowed to be played on those servers. Threatening basically whole scene and admins is without a doubt serious thing to do and it shouldn't be accepted without any consequences. Some more info about that can be found on .

Wision did not remove those demos and even uploaded more from 2x2? league. This resulted in Thaigo breaking the rule 1.4 in the EDL playoffs match wision vs flag

gerppa. Players were searching for an equal server. When they finally found one and readied up, thaigo has kickbanned wision from the server and as a result of this, players had to switch to worse server for both and play on higher ping and significant amount of packet loss. By doing this, thaigo has clearly interfered with a league match he had no attendance in and broke the rules by harming the match for two players. This action took a place on a server which does not belong to thaigo and he has no right to ban players there for his own satisfaction. It's also necessary to mention that Thaigo has already been warned before in 2x2? league that abusing server admin rights on servers to harm the leagues will never be tolerated.

This only action is fairly enough to make a decision like this, but we also considered his previous behavior in the league, where he was bending the rules to his liking, abusing admins' willing to let players play their games in later stages by not forcing games every week, unwilling to schedule matches with his oponents, coming up with ridiculous modification of the rules, not giving his oponents many choices for playing their games, not willing to send screenshots and so on.. This is not what sportsmanship is about and as in any other tournament we require it from players too. All this behavior is creating troubles during the league and harming participating players.

Let us also mention that one admin of those servers which Thaigo got admin passwords for already showed big disappointment in Thaigo's actions and felt that his trust was betrayed by him.

Because all the reasons above, this player has never been easy to work with, we decided to remove him from EDL and also we want to inform that thaigo is not welcome in any upcoming season of EDL. Decision is final. Since his abusive behavior took place before his match with flag

Jol, Jol will advance to next playoff round and play against Gerppa.

Comments

Buz	2010-03-14 07:17
	Thaigo FAKKK OFFF UROD
zdufs	2010-03-03 15:31
	hahaahahahahaaha
Delita	2010-02-23 07:16
	Kolt: bad guy? ur more like a clown Well then a clown owns you at Quake 2. Also it's spelt You're not ur. Retard. :
gren	2010-02-22 16:51
	i think u misunderstood what he was trying to say kolt
kolt	2010-02-22 14:05
	bad guy? ur more like a clown
Delita	2010-02-22 07:10
	WoW! for once the spotlight is not on me! This sucks, I wanna be Q2's biggest bad guy again.
Jeo	2010-02-21 12:04
	@rl: and it seemed pretty well deserved.
gren	2010-02-21 09:25
	hence the jew!
gren	2010-02-21 09:24
	biah: no really? i was just being a smartass
rl	2010-02-21 07:52
	@jeo thaigo already got yellow (many of them actaully)...now he just received a well deserved red!
biah	2010-02-21 07:30
	gren: this expression about chewing hands is widely used here irl so it's not a quote from The Pianist... Just to clearefy
masteris	2010-02-21 06:25
	There is simply things to understand: Before sign to the league READ the rules - if you dont like them simply dont join! Someone still broke some rules and admins is NEEDED to make a right decission to keep fair league. I got some questions in mind, you can answer for yourself: - what is q2 without q2scene to keep uz together to enjoy an old game? - whats is q2scene without rules in leagues? - and what league without admins who make that leagues run properly? If we ruin it all by small things - I pray will be a website like this to not let q2 die cause: WE HERE FROM DIFFERENT NATIONS AND Q2 MAKES US ALL UNITED E-FRIENDS BY ITS HISTORY LONG, IN SOME WAY FORGOTTEN AND THE FUTURE WE SHALL FACE TOGETHER - I WRITE THIS MESSAGE FOR OUR PAST TO BE REMEMBERED - FOR IN THOSE MEMORYS QUAKE2 LIVE ON!
AlexyeNov	2010-02-21 06:13
	"Only" 292 comments left to SKILL of Opti vs Turricane thread ;-D
Delita	2010-02-20 17:52
	Let us consult Grens beard for the final decision!
Jeo	2010-02-20 16:08
	Kickbanning anyone from a server who hasnt been cheating or in any other way behaved in a way that damages gameplay for other players, is very sad. Both for whole scene as for the individual players. Kickbanning players or admins that are actively participating or admining a league match, is a MAJOR offence to those involved and also a blunt backstab to the scene. Whatever personal feelings or reasons lay behind it doesnt justify it. Doesn,t matter if uve paid 500000$ for the server and own every password etc... When joining a league i guess that u dont just agree to rules, but also agree to be admined by those listed as admins of the league. If u play soccer and referee makes bad decision, u still have to follow it. I guess thats the spirit of all competitive "sports"? I got a questionf for u Thg... Did u kickban or kick admins because of personal feelings or because they had broken some rule, either written in leagues or by server admins/owners/etc? I guess thers a missing rule in the rules section about leagues having right to use what ever servers are up and runniing. But since all things cant be in rules everyone is relying on common sense and goodwill. If i understood right wisions "crime" was uploading demos. Nothing in rule that he can't do that. Sp he did, and thus participating in buikding up scene and offer good entertainment for us that like to watch demos. I guess Thg "crime" is kicking and banning (?) people from servers or league games. I guess that cant be called participating in the good for scene. So, Thg maybe i have misunderstood some parts of it. But do you recognize the difference in your actions? To me it seems wision acted out of what was good for "whole" scene. While Thg acted on what was good for himself? In what way isnt it like this? Plz answer in a sincere way. =) kisses
gren	2010-02-20 15:31
	ENG ONLY Edited: 2010-02-21 08:00
thaigo	2010-02-20 15:30
	Guess what purri? I don't give a shit what ur opinion is since it's not based on anything. Your just another troll.
PURRI	2010-02-20 15:20
	The more shit that comes up with this the more I feel that it was a 100% correct decision to ban thaigo. Since I'm not a admin, this is just my opinion, and guess what thaigo? I'm not basing it on anything. Since if I was, you would be proving me wrong and you would be right again! (c) Thaigos world!
gren	2010-02-20 15:06
	Biah wrote: "You give them a finger, they chew on the whole hand. As it was said in report/news " wasnt that said in The Pianist? if u give a jew the finger, he will take the whole hand
gren	2010-02-20 14:28
	funny how grown up ppl can argue and behave like this over a computer game...get ur shit together
thaigo	2010-02-20 14:07
	I have explained to u several times why I had the rights to do what I did. For some reason YOU seem to be ignoring it completely and failing to understand differences beetween hosting-owning-admining-playing in servers. I got those servers from SERVERHOSTS and was left to decide who to give server admins/passwords to. Nowhere it was mentioned that I would need to give those passwords to anyone, but I decided to give them to wision. So can you now see the difference beetween serverhost-owner-admin-player? You not responding/starting with jokes and sarcasm just proves that you cant respond properly anymore when someone is trying to reason with you. Edited: 2010-02-20 14:08
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:57
	so how come you thought you can do anything you want on those severs you mentioned, when apparently the server owners doesent let you? And a question to you, do you want all random players to run around with rcon/adm and using them to do paybacks because of "irc" fights? Cause if you can do it it means every singel player has the right to do it, now would that be good? You know thaigo, from so many different explanations i try to make you understand with, either you ignore them or twist them. you know what , ill do like the rest of the scene ill just ignore you. write what you like you wont get any replys from me anymore, cause obviously you and me cant discuss this mather and obviously you and wision cant and obviously you and the rest of the scene cant, but i am sure you will find someone else to terrorise. so you have two admins left to bugg, lets see how long they put up with you, i guess no way as long as i...
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:48
	There u go again, talk about things u know nothing about. Serverhost is a different thing than being in charge of some server and being in charge of some server is a different thing than having admin/rcon of some server. Stolen is not serverhost or admin. And what comes to your admining position in edl, I suggest you remove yourself, cause u have proven not to be able to handle tough situations with sense, but instead u start to joke around/being sarcastic. Edited: 2010-02-20 13:49
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:43
	hmm wierd i thought it belonged to stolen...
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:37
	Wision already proved that I infact had the rights to that server, so I didn't interfier with the league cause that game coulnd't have been played there anyway.
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:35
	and you dident have permission to interfer with a league game, wision or not. And the server is not your so, sorry
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:33
	Cheimera wrote: Ill even let you win cause you will never change. ill say anything ill do anything as long as you stfu and leave me alone, thats how tired i am of you and your shit talk, you poison this whole scene! So now, after 5 minutes, ure already going back on your words? And as I have explained to u several times, wision didn't have permission to go there in the first place.
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:26
	haha believe me you will never have to deal with me. NEVER. But i wont unban you, cause it doesent change that you broke the rules. As we have explaned for you several times. If ill resign ill resign for the reason to not have to speak with you ever again. win win situation, i win cause i dont need to have anything to do with you and you win cause you will never have to do anything with me. deal?
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:22
	Cheimera, deal if it goes both ways, that I don't have to deal with u either. Unban me from edl and resign yourself if u want to, or otherwise just dont admin my matches.
MasterG	2010-02-20 13:17
	there is something really wrong with you. you dont understand what some words mean. i'm sorry for you.
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:16
	thaigo do you know how fucked up you seriously are? Ill resign i promise you i will, but promise me i will never EVER have to deal with you again NEVER! Cause its so NOT worth it seriously, i am not gonna lift a finger more to do anything for a scene where you are involved in. Ill even let you win cause you will never change. ill say anything ill do anything as long as you stfu and leave me alone, thats how tired i am of you and your shit talk, you poison this whole scene! Just say yes and ill write news where i resign right now!
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:14
	Cheimera, no, not really. I just hope that as an admin, u would do it asap, cause it would the best for the league and it could go on. And for your own sake, I hope this is not some sarcasm, cause that would only make u look more idiotic. Mg, notice the words: not always. Enough with the trolling. Edited: 2010-02-20 13:15
MasterG	2010-02-20 13:11
	so they were not right by saying your scheduling is correct? just sticking to your logic
Cheimera	2010-02-20 13:10
	yes thaigo yes, anything else sir?
thaigo	2010-02-20 13:03
	Of course ure entitled to you own opinion about the matter mg. Admins aren't always right, but since you seem to believe that they are, I had to "talk in your language". Cheimera, still waiting for u to do the right thing, one would think u would have done it by now, since u spend so many hundreds of hours for edl. So this should be a quick fix. Edited: 2010-02-20 13:06
MasterG	2010-02-20 12:57
	so when admins support you, they are right. when admins doesn't support you, they are wrong?
thaigo	2010-02-20 12:47
	masterg, in my little world? Admins already said to me I was right in scheduling like I did. Not my problem if u don't accept. Cheimera, no and I don't expect u to. I just expect u to behave in a proper way and do what is right.
MasterG	2010-02-20 12:43
	yes of course your scheduling was right in your own little world
Cheimera	2010-02-20 12:42
	yes thaigo yes, do you se my knees bending for you?
thaigo	2010-02-20 12:40
	Cheimera, as wise as u claim to be and so many hundreds of hours(lol) u claim to spend, I hope u know what u need to do then.
Cheimera	2010-02-20 12:36
	thaigo YES EXACTLY!
thaigo	2010-02-20 12:34
	Mg, I'm not gonna even bother replying to your trolling attemps, when you dont have anything to base your sayings to. By the way, admins already said that I was correct scheduling the games as I did. And the reason for scheduling the way I did, has been here already. Edited: 2010-02-20 12:36
MasterG	2010-02-20 12:30
	thaigo do you even realize that with every sentence you are proving you deserved this ban? PS. i would have banned him after his EDL scheduling tricks long time ago. Edited: 2010-02-20 12:32
thaigo	2010-02-20 12:30
	Cheimera, so in another words, you realised I'm right and you got nothing how you could prove it otherwise. Yeah I'm fine with that.
Cheimera	2010-02-20 12:26
	Thaigo i removed it because of the simple fact that i actually realized the waist of time talking to you. You are god we will all obey you and your opinions.
thaigo	2010-02-20 12:08
	Wision: You choosing not to do something is not the same as not having options. Exactly how would I break a rule if you dont have permission to go that server in the first place? You even asked me to tell u which servers u're not allowed to play, so u could tell your opponent that. I wasn't aware that Dimmo had admin status in DS, I would have asked him if I did knew that. Cheimera: Same to u as for wision. How would I break a rule, if wision doesn't have a permission to go that server in the first place? If there is a server somewhere in the internet and u're running a league, it doesn't mean u still have any rights to use that server as u please, specially if ure already told not to go there. I'm sure the server admins which I have talked with (like 30 minutes ago), would have mentioned something to me. And no, I havent talked with exhale or okidoki hosters. Cheimera, why did you remove your post? Hopefully because you came to senses and realised how stupid it was. Edited: 2010-02-20 12:10
wision	2010-02-20 11:52
	No I did not have any options.. I'm not somebody who would kick someone else just to please himself like you do. I didn't think you would actually kick me from there, and you know what happened next time we met on one of those servers. If I knew the same before I'm quite sure we would play on that euroq2l server with gerppa, but it still wouldn't let you go without a punishment, since you would still break the rule. You are all over me by you saying "why he did that if he knew" etc etc.. but why didn't you ask other admin to remove your demos from DS? You asked only me and I said no. You could ask other 12 (now since Dimmo lost his rights there are only 12 in total) admins from demosquad.. but you chose not to. You chose to wait to see what happens and then when everything was over, then you asked Dimmo to remove your demos which he did remove. Careem: one point to you.. you're saying it like I uploaded tens of his demos or something. I actually uploaded only three demos and I watched all three demos and I think all those demos are worth to be seen and that's why they are uploaded.. It's just what you chose to think is right since you don't want to believe what I say. And you (and some others) chose to think that the demos were uploaded just to piss Thaigo off. That's your opinion and you can't really base anything on that.
thaigo	2010-02-20 11:39
	Wision wrote: Player accepting your "punishment" (since he doesn't have any other option, so not saying anything would be exactly the same) doesn't allow you to do what you did. There you just proved that I had the rights to do what I did. You had the same passwords than I did, and if you didn't think that I was in charge of those servers, you would have options. Same options that I had. But by saying u didn't have options, u just proved that I was in charge. About the exhale, you can ask from Cheimera.
wision	2010-02-20 11:24
	Yeap Thaigo.. I said I won't complain to you, and I didn't. Player accepting your "punishment" (since he doesn't have any other option, so not saying anything would be exactly the same) doesn't allow you to do what you did. Also feel free to explain the exhale thing in here please, because I don't think I've heard about it. And also okidoki since you lost that server too (and soon you will lose all the rest but wizards probably). So just explain how you could "own" those servers since you apparently don't? "tho I dont agree u would have won anything here" Yeah.. since you are the experienced one, then probably no.
thaigo	2010-02-20 10:15
	What are u talking about Cheimera, who are u trying to bullshit here? None of them, who I have been in contact with, haven't complained a single word to me and changed the passwords. If you're talking about exhale, I think I already explained the situation with that server to you. And are u really going that low to drag some out of context lines from full log? Read the full log instead. If that isn't accepting the consequences, then I dunno what is. Now when u already started this lowlevel, here are the lines ure looking for: 01<wision> it means that you're going to ban me on couple of european servers i guess 01<wision> maybe you could name them? so i know where i can't play league games and let my oponents know 01<wision> well.. maybe you're admin on more servers than i thought 01<wision> but ok.. nvm Specially these ones: 01<wision> i can live without those servers too emo 01<thaigo> nice, hope u dont start complaining then 01<wision> to you? why would i emo I have heard one certain line many times, finally u have shown me the meaning of it. The line I'm talking about goes something like this: Don't argue with an idiot over the internet, they will only drag you down to their level and win by experience(tho I dont agree u would have won anything here). Edited: 2010-02-20 10:36
cowb0y	2010-02-20 10:01
	and besides... it was I - ME who came up with the idea of [BOSS] for fuck sake! Sista Bossen (The Last Boss) a.k.a [BOSS]. I felt robbed! So I had to point this out - now felt like a good time. LOL
Cheimera	2010-02-20 09:55
	You shouldent paste logs which makes you look like an idiot. He dident agree do you see? He said if you want to go that far, and apparently you did so you did know you are going to be punished. Quit twisting every singel word someone tells you. <thaigo> publishing demos from u=ban to all servers <wision> if you want to go that far <wision> i'm doing something for the scene and for the league.. and you're banning me from the servers.. see the difference? <thaigo> wizards, scarab, stan, okidoki, exhale, euroq2l and quaek <thaigo> and i will change the admin passwords, if needed Now how come server owners change the passwords and give it to us? Well apparently cause they dont want their servers to be abused. I would be ashamed to betray a guys trust who gives the scene a server to use when they dont even play the game theirself.
thaigo	2010-02-20 09:36
	That was just an example. Feel free to insert wisions name instead of yours. And you still fail to see the difference in having a control over a server and having admin/rcon. And yes there is a difference beetween me and you. If for example I would be an admin of edl, like you, and get rcon/admin to for example dediz, I wouldn't have kicked wision there, cause I still don't have any control over the server. And for the most important part: Why am I being punished for something wision said he wouldn't do? And if wision would have thought that its unreasonable or I don't have rights to do that, why would he still agree on it. Doesn't make any sense. The way I see it, wision has some personal issues with me and lied to me to get to kick me out from leagues. Considering he is an admin, isn't that interfiering with the league and something he should be totally against?
Cheimera	2010-02-20 09:24
	never had admin to wizards server, never wanted it. You know why? cause i dident want to have anything to do with servers you control but still dont own. Because somehow i knew even before al lthis that you were capable of doing these kind of things, you have proved your ego long time ago. And whats the difference, i have rcon and admin to the most of the servers, have you seen me abuse those? You know, how i see it, the difference between me and you? I dont believe ANYONE deserves to be kicked or banned from a server if they are not cheating or interfering with a league game ofc. You, you just see that "i got the power i do whatever i want" cause you cant do nothing about it. This kind of players are not wanted in the leagues we make for you, i dont use hundreds of hours a year to please people who doesent have respect for the players the communitys the admins or the scene in overall.
thaigo	2010-02-20 09:14
	Cheimera, u fail to see the difference in being in control of a server and having admin/rcon. For example, u have, or I mean had admin for wizards server, but it still doesn't mean you would have any control over the wizards server. See the difference?
thaigo	2010-02-20 09:11
	I don't understand why I'm even being banned from edl. 1. I tell wision he is not welcome to play on those servers mentioned. 2. Wision agrees and says he is ok not play on those servers and even tells me that he won't whine about it. 3. I kick wision from one of those servers. 4. Wision cries like a baby about the kick eventho he said he is ok not playing there and promised not whine about it. 5. I get banned for it
Cheimera	2010-02-20 09:06
	so what thaigo is saying, the ones having admin passwords for a server you rule the league and all the official matches. So in thaigos words it mean, i can kick all admins or players that have done something to me that i doesent like i can kick players and admins during the league and rule the scene. Cause if i dont get as i want then no one is gonna get it! What if every one was thinking in the same way? Would mean if we would play vs play on any server where i have passwords i can kick the admin admining the game, maybe thats Biah, just cause he kicked me from #euroq2l channel cause i dident speak english. And then i can kick pogo during the game, just cause he uploaded a demo i dident want him ot upload. So lets all start wtih this kind of behaviour and paybacks and lets see where the leagues end up.... Nice extremly ego way of thinking. You care about yourself and you dont give a shit about the game the leagues or anything. As long as you get what YOU want. What if all those players you have kicked from channels in irc during the years was server owners, would have mean you couldent have played a singel game the past years, since you think "counter-reactions" is acceptable. Cause you would have been banned everywhere. Edited: 2010-02-20 09:07
arch^	2010-02-20 08:55
	Yeh thg, I'm just explaining to careem why the admins banned you
thaigo	2010-02-20 08:34
	First of all, ure a fucking retard arch for thinking I would try to take something away and revenge. I got those servers to support leagues. Now when I have seen that those leagues are not worth supporting for, I take the servers away. Quite simple. And for the first kicks, it's just a matter of opinion if I had or didn't have rights to kick rl and wision. I had/have admin/rcon and I was the one who got those servers in the first place. I was left in custody with those servers, so I think my action was justified because to both rl and wision I told in forehand that I will do that, if rl keeps banning me on leaguechannels(and that he did) and to wision that he can't come to those servers if he keeps uploading 2x2 demos against my will (and that he did). So they had it coming. I'm definately not sorry or anything that I kicked them, neither am I sorry for taking the servers away from leagues ( some of us were willing to take them away totally and not keep them for public use even ), but I think that would harm the scene. For example if we would close down Wizards servers, there wouldn't be any playable server in Finland and that would pretty much mean no more Q2 in Finland. The only thing I'm sorry for that it had to go this way. Some things could have been left unsaid from both parts of this coinsidence and both parts could have had more respect towards each other. Edited: 2010-02-20 08:42
arch^	2010-02-20 08:20
	Careem........................ So what if he was right? If I call you an ass, are you allowed to shoot me with a gun? That is what is the problem that the admins had, and why he got banned. He did again exactly the same thing btw after he got banned. He made clear that euroq2l games are not allowed to be played anymore on servers where he has admin. He says he will ban those clans if they do it. And as you know, euroq2l doesnt have that much to do with edl, there are only different admins too. So, the thing is he can't take a 'hit' and just accept it, no he must come over the top and also involve others in it. So I personally don't care at all if he was right or wrong about the demos, and not many people do... All you had to read is the newspost, I dno how you can make a FULL post only mentionning DEMOS? You just missed the point totally. In real life it also doesn't work as thg thinks. Even if you are done harm, you are not allowed to take right into your own hands and overreact. It's the same here, admins can't allow it and just watch from the sidelines and do nothing. Edited: 2010-02-20 08:24
AlexyeNov	2010-02-20 07:57
	Why all you not like rl ? He is good news-maker, what problems???
biah	2010-02-20 05:27
	Does this oppinion has anything to do with Careem not uploading his own demo from euroq2l last game? Still waiting for it...
careem	2010-02-19 21:20
	The one who should leave q2scene for GOOD is rl and NOT Thaigo. There was no rule about adding demos, about adding all his demos to demosquad - at this point i have to agree with thaigo. I wonder why didn't admins leave him alone and put a rule in the next season? And see if he respects them? After that I would do some actions like to force him to upload all the demos he have. But still, this could be very stupid to upload all the demos of one players. In my opinion, requested demos should be uploaded and not all. All demos of each person is very stupid. IF someone would like to watch a demo then he should request a demo to upload, otherwise uploading all the demos is just stupid. I'm not defending thaigo, we are not even freinds, but this was not right. I have read whole conversation now. IT took me like an hour. To be honest, by reading all the comments, Thaigo was right 95% everywhere. For thaigo and admins, Hopefully this is not your real decision Thaigo. Admins, I hope u will remove his ban since his ban is nonsense. I have never seen Thaigo not respecting the rules or players. Thaigo always said straight and directly to the players and admins. And here is the problem because players/admins understand it all wrong. PS: Muerte for an admin, but he needs to improve his English. Why muerte? Because he does work and do job in five different leagues at once
rl	2010-02-19 10:59
	yeah zotter, you know that, we know that...everybody knows that...but as i already said, for thaigo (and murte) black is white and white is black... thaigo has only himself to blame for this whole mess...who is threating others like some shit? who is making troubles in every league he join? who kicked admins from the server while they were admining some off. match? and many many other things... Edited: 2010-02-19 11:25
zotter	2010-02-19 09:42
	its funny to see how some random guy who never participate in any q2 league have always soooo much to say who the fuck is muerte? if i would be admin i would ban that guy, he always cry and flame, admins shouldnt tolerate acting like that about thaigo, very good decision - finally! he was always acting like angry kid, imo those bans are even too late, he should be banned long time ago
Sniper_bg	2010-02-19 08:39
	The point was why thago dont was dismiss more soon NVM Some guys found excuse in thaigo action, to blaim him why q2 scene go down.Only thing for that is we grow up and this change everything, cant u expect from the new generation to play with the same desire like us who love this game and we play 10 years and more. arch theme turn to other them.Rly is not here the place where we discuss, what is wrong or not. Sorry for offtopic.
arch^	2010-02-19 07:55
	Sniper and what does that have to do with this news? I don't really get your point. Did admins make wrong decision here according to you? Or the right?
wision	2010-02-19 06:30
	the problem in EDL wasn't about player being above admin... the problem was that one player thought he's above other players or above the whole league and its matches.. which is wrong, and it was our duty to protect the players and the league itself.
Sniper_bg	2010-02-19 06:12
	First thing arch is . Admin write the rules ? or they listen what people approve? Players say what is correct or not ,not admins. If have something wrong in rules admins cant change that without ask a players.In who is power? in players or admins.Players approve what is good for them and admin work is to observer for that. Sometime happend that the stuped lots of peoples think one thing , and other peoples who is right dont have any chance to change that.Dont mean everytime when a lots of peoples think when something is correct , they are right. Edited: 2010-02-19 06:24
arch^	2010-02-19 05:19
	And a league can exist without admins? Actually i think what purri meant is that no indivudal admin or player is bigger then the scene. I definately disagree that a player is more important then an admin. You need both! But since admins do something extra for the scene, I think they earn a bit more respect... Edited: 2010-02-19 05:19
Sniper_bg	2010-02-19 05:15
	not real what you maybe you think.Every players ,teams and admin have hes duty. They are both importand but players have priority.Why? Why you dont need from admins if league cant exist. Arch how is possible one normal player decide something from admin work when he dont have straight for that? Edited: 2010-02-19 05:24
arch^	2010-02-19 05:12
	Are you seriously saying a player is more important then an admin? So a player who decides to do some admin work cause he thinks he will help the leagues with that, is actually being downgraded? You are crazy. Edited: 2010-02-19 05:13
Sniper_bg	2010-02-19 05:04
	PURRI: Ps: No player/team is bigger than the admins or the scene. You wrong man every man and every team is more bigger from the admins.This leagues is for teams and players they cant exist without them. Admins have only one work to watch are teams and players keep the rules.But some times admin make mistake when interpreter wrong rules or make compromise with something.One compromise give change for next compromise. If the rules is more precisely admins dont need to get own decision what to make in exactly situation. Sorry I hope to understand why i try to say even with my ENGRISH. no bad feelings. Edited: 2010-02-19 05:06
dug-	2010-02-18 16:30
	ROFL ! DDDDD gg rl ))))) show must go on !
rl	2010-02-18 12:43
	i guess they learned from the best: http://i33.tinypic.com/vshptt.png http://i33.tinypic.com/2cgy2iv.png http://i35.tinypic.com/fykfah.png
Delita	2010-02-18 10:19
	Guess my predictions are correct. Quake 2 players have become whining wimps!
Hibru	2010-02-18 09:09
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psTUiQzNoxw wision=singer quitar=cheimera police=rl woman=kicia bass=kolt I lolled, they stole thaigos demos! ...Broking the rule 1.4 cmon sing!!!... Edited: 2010-02-18 09:11
destroyer8472	2010-02-18 04:33
	just switch to world of warcraft. pew pew Edited: 2010-02-18 11:29
kolt	2010-02-17 18:23
	rofl u dont get money for ur admin work here? haha noobs (time to buy new maybach from my q2scene money)
Cheimera	2010-02-17 17:15
	haha yeh prizes would be great, but we tryed to get people to give a few euros for the invitational tournament we made just before EDL, did not work out so well =).
ceba	2010-02-17 16:49
	Wrong Arch :p Cheimera, you should consider PayPal seriously. I dont think for most players few euros would mean much. But you would get prize fund emo And moaning payers Edited: 2010-02-17 16:50
arch^	2010-02-17 16:48
	<-
sArge	2010-02-17 16:37
	and the winner is ...
name	2010-02-17 16:33
	2 more until it reaches level "epic thread" Edited: 2010-02-17 16:34
AlexyeNov	2010-02-17 16:30
	3 comments left to skilled thread ....
Cheimera	2010-02-17 16:27
	paypaj account, not bad idea though, i would be miljonair if i took 20euro for every hour i spent doing edl stuff, an wision would have more money than bill gates can only dream off
xed	2010-02-17 12:50
	well done
arch^	2010-02-17 12:13
	Okay gerppa, then I get it.
gerppa	2010-02-17 11:35
	arch i pointed those out cause i wanted to know what he means with those? im not commenting on the full image neither to these full news.. im just curious of those things i already asked.
kolt	2010-02-17 08:58
	here u go: 1.4 Any behavior taken by a player to intentionally harm the league or one of its matches can be punished. 1.5 Some situations, which whether are not listed in the rules or are impossible to be solved by the rules, are solved by the crew.
Cheimera	2010-02-17 08:41
	Digital, true there, but it is almost impossible to think of all the "loopholes". People are very creative and they will always find something you have missed. But as we have said we are always open to changes, if you find loophole in the rules please report it and we will fix it most certain. And we admins we do not have unlimited time to fix every singel little thing as many of you think, its just impossible, then we would have to employ an admin for full time. This is still just a hobby, we dont have sponsors as many other professional leagues, we have to try to use some common sense in order to make this work. And believe me as long as those lines i copied from the 2x2 insta news are followed we wont have any SERIOUS issues to deal with. Small issues like demos and not scheduling games and screenshots and all those things we can live with, people get a warning, whine a couple of times and then move on. The rest that has happen in the thaigo case here is not acceptable in any terms. This is not a warzone we dont do "amagad my demos are published ill go on a revenge tour and ban you everywhere" Not acceptable at all and will never be. Not towards a player or an admin. Edited: 2010-02-17 08:42
Digital	2010-02-17 08:32
	The rules of ALL leagues needs to cover any angle possible, including delivering demos etc. If it's not written it's not there. Players and clans "signup" to the rules presented before the league. You leave a loophole and yes, someone will use it eventually. Blocking loopholes is part of good admining, that way you got less petty fights on your hands...
raskal	2010-02-17 07:22
	fucking hippies, hating is fun
Jou	2010-02-17 05:23
	Dimmo:"QL has much nicer scene, time to switch " Yep, well I think the problem is, that everyone has been playing this game so long that people really think they are above anyone else. As my earlier post, I won't take sides in this one - cuz I still don't care. But as far as reading the thread I can't help noticing that it's always the same guys that are flaming about issues. I myself would have taken a more diplomatic solution. Why couldn't you just kick him off the league and bargain a deal with him? Well OK I know thg can be a bit stubborn from times to times, but for the scenes sake you could just kept it a bit offtopic imo. Cuz posting this in a thread like this doesn't make it justified. It feels MORE than a personal vendetta and it feels like you guys are posting him on a wall to be stoned to death. Too bad there wasn't any diplomatic guy making the deals. Well I don't say thg hasn't done anything wrong, but I just think that this topic could have been slightly silenced behind the curtain. As Juzam and Gravgon said, it makes people sad more than want to play the game anymore. Well I'm off to jollylandtrip now.. Peace, love and Pitbulls!
wision	2010-02-17 04:23
	If that's your opinion Thaigo.. I'm not gonna change it, since like Cheimera already pointed out, you always think you are right and never wrong. So it's quite pointless actually. Anyway.. it doesn't matter where it started, you escalated it in the way which is not possible to just leave without noticing.
thaigo	2010-02-17 02:43
	"Yeap.. in my book I acted normal" -So your normal is not to have respect towards players. Yeap, by default/normal you are a dick. "why is everybody speaking about those god damn demos?" -Those are the very reason this started. And the fact that wision is a dick by default. Edited: 2010-02-17 02:53
Cheimera	2010-02-17 01:56
	why is everybody speaking about those god damn demos? When its about admins getting kicked from servers, abusing admin passwords and everything else thaigo has been involved in, how can it always be the same idiot! in every occasion in every discussion in every singel mather. Thats the interesting part. Now even we in the 2x2 insta league had to clear som things up in our latest news like: We admins wants to make sure of a couple of things. -We do not accept any bad behaviour towards admins or players. -We do not accept anykind of kicking or banning on the servers unless a cheater is involved or a player or admin is intefering with a league game. Player or an admin does not have any right to kick or bann a player for his personal opinions or rages towards somebody. -If an admin commits bad behaviour or any kind of rule breaking do not hesitate to report that to any other admin. -We stand for fair play and a fun time in the 2x2 insta league and anyone trying to sabotage the harmony of the league will be punished. Now there is nothing absolutly nothing that GIVES you the persmission to go nuts like thaigo did and break any of those rules. With some pathetic childish revenge shit like on his uber log he posted here. End of it.
wision	2010-02-17 01:53
	"just act normal and dont be a dick to me" Yeap.. in my book I acted normal. Problem is that these things are based on opinions, and those are not enough to break league rules. gerppa You yourself complained couple of times during the game that you have huge pl and that you don't hear many sounds like me taking mega or using jumpad. That is complaining to me and it showed me that your game wasn't on your top, which means that the match was harmed. When I say many people I am also talking about spectators and admins, since the game is here for them as well. (by the way.. several does not equal couple) Me saying that I don't care if he ruined my game or not, has nothing to do with the statement that he actually did ruin my game and that's the problem. Me caring about it is another story, but no game should be ruined no matter what. I don't deny that AC disturbed (and still is) my mouse settings. It doesn't mean it couldn't be ruined even more huh.
arch^	2010-02-17 01:39
	Now suddenly gerppa gonna come up with weird stuff also? Is cause thg is your mate I guess. The only thing I could understand is if people think the punishment is too harsh. But nobody here should be saying that he didn't do anything wrong. Obviously he should be punished. There can be a warning, kick, ban and probably there are other things to come up with. But what you are saying is just silly gerppa. You point out very specific things that wision said in comments here, but in the news post is why thaigo got punished. You seem to miss the bigger picture, same as thaigo... Edited: 2010-02-17 01:48
gerppa	2010-02-16 19:34
	wision: "I myself don't care much about ruined game for me.. sure it was wasted 1.5h of wasted time because I lost all motivation when he kicked me from the server" why do you say it like that now? before game you go on with how anticheat has fucked up your game and that you dont have motivation to play cause your mouse doesnt work properly and AC is being weird.. and now you find another reasons? i guess its a way to look you better, well indeed, good luck versus Jol in EDL next round.
gerppa	2010-02-16 19:23
	wision, you keep saying thaigo ruined the game for some people, but same time your saying it didnt affect yourself, seeing the games were where thaigo played himself and kicked veed in a 2on2 game.. what is there to ruin for several people? and other thing is edl game, where it was me and you taking part, in my side the game was better now that we had more equal server, yet you complain about that aswell as being loss for several people, when it was only you who got affected by anything. that leads to what you said previously: you couldnt care less if he ruined it or not. so im just asking you, who are the people whos game he did in fact ruin?
thaigo	2010-02-16 19:18
	No need to "behave very nice", just act normal and dont be a dick to me and I won't be a dick to you.
biah	2010-02-16 18:42
	Can't agree with Gravgon on "is safe now". We have recieved notices of broken anticheat again. Maybe just a pussy talk, but maybe a threat... Can't know for sure. I guess that was the reason for that new shitty anticheat version, which either crashes or makes mouse not work... or even lags! Safety is becoming an issue again
wision	2010-02-16 18:34
	Right Thaigo.. so everyone just has to behave very nice to you or you will kickban them from servers as well right? Now it's not about any admins.. but just any player. You just showed that you put your own interest in front of interests of every league, admin and every other player. That's just sad.
thaigo	2010-02-16 18:31
	Demos being removed have nothing do with any admins, it wasn't any league admin who removed them by my request. And none of the kicks would have happened if it wasnt someone else who started kicking me first/sharing demos without my permission. But keep up the good work, soon u will have noone to admin. Because of these happenigs, none of the wizards want to participate in euroq2l anymore. Edited: 2010-02-16 18:33
wision	2010-02-16 18:06
	Thaigo, you weren't forced to publish any demo, and you didn't publish any.. I did publish your demos and I watched them and I think they are good and worth seeing. Just because it happened to be all 3 demos (yes.. only 3 demos of yours were posted which are already removed by the way) you sent me, I can't do nothing about. I can assure all of you that we (admins) have been thinking about the decision for long time enough to come up with it. I agree with Juzam here that this is not a victory nor funny thing to laugh about. But you have to understand our point. We've put up with Thaigo's stunts for some time now.. every time it was usually just him and admins, so it wasn't _that_ big deal.. but now he took it to another level and affected a league match he had nothing to do with. You may think it was wision's game and he pissed him off as an admin because he asked him for demos or something.. but what if it would be somebody else who pissed off Thaigo? I myself don't care much about ruined game for me.. sure it was wasted 1.5h of wasted time because I lost all motivation when he kicked me from the server, but I wasn't the only one whose game was ruined and as an admin I have to protect those people and make sure things like that won't happen in the league. So i am asking you, if now it was a mistake to prevent ruining future league games, when it wouldn't be? When he ruins a match for 2nd time? For third time? Or when he finally ruins the game for you? Or you think he can do whatever he wants just because he's one of the top players? Do you think that justifying his action by saying that I uploaded his three demos is ok? If so, then this should probably happen to you, so you would see what's the point here. Don't forget that Thaigo said he can live with some of his demos on DS, but yet he couldn't live without ruining a league match for couple of players. Gravgon: The story is not so simple but.. meh. And don't forget that we don't need any rules to upload demos. It's a thing based just on Thaigo's opinion as he stated already before, which noone really has to rely on as he is requesting to.
thaigo	2010-02-16 17:37
	"why wouldn't you want the same recognition as someone like purri? -I certainly haven't played Q2 to gain respect or fame, couldn't care less about it. "I don't understand why anybody wouldn't want to upload demos of his games when he played well ?" -Have you not read this thread? I was forced to publish all the demos, not just the ones I played good, but all. Did anyone else have to do that? No. "There was a demo of him on the free CD in a computer magazine." -Rofl What cd was that, where could one get it? Edited: 2010-02-16 17:38
Juzam	2010-02-16 17:26
	Chapter 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, etc.. sArge delivers his insightful analysis on the matter.
Digital	2010-02-16 17:13
	Both sides should look into a mirror. Overall a bad show...
Gravgon	2010-02-16 17:03
	I was first very psyched up about this huge drama, I was eager to read it and give my opinion because, I'll admit, it's the only thing I've been doing for a couple of years now. But now that I have read everything... What a let down. I just discovered that I had no clear opinion, I was just sad. I'd still like to comment a few points: - Demos: we started forcing people to record demos at a time when there wasn't any working anticheat anymore. So it was our only option to keep players feel, somehow, "safe" from cheaters. Then r1q2 anticheat came up and it was supposed to be safer. It probably is and that's why admins started to go easy with the demo forcing. Now, the demo publishing issue. I'm not gonna lie, we had to create rules almost only because of thaigo. For whatever reasons, he refused to share demos which was sad considering the state of the q2 scene. On this matter, i'd just like to share with thaigo my big question: PURRI is probably the most famous q2 player and he's also (arguably) the best or one of the 2-3 best. Now if I think of how I first heard of purri, it goes back to the old days of the XTC demo website, there was at least one demo of purri uploaded every day. Some games he totally ruled, some games a bit less but imo that's how he became so respected in the whole community. That's also how he influenced the way Q2 was played (the newschool way). Thaigo, you're a top player and you've been for longer than anybody in the scene (afaik), why wouldn't you want the same recognition as someone like purri? I don't understand why anybody wouldn't want to upload demos of his games when he played well ? The ironic thing is that thaigo is one of the first q2 player I knew about. I knew about him even before I started playing q2. How? There was a demo of him on the free CD in a computer magazine. So you see thaigo, if you would start posting less comments and more demos, you could quickly gain back the respect you once had from this community. But aside of all this and the fact that you had it coming with the demo sharing problem... you still have a point: there isn't a clear rule in 2x2 (and euroq2l) about demo publishing which is a problem that needs to be fixed. Sadly though, it's a problem because of you only. - Power (of any form): that's the main problem here imo. This kind of situation is what you get when you give power to people who have no real intention to help the scene. I blame the people who recruited rl as admin. What were you thinking? It could have been worse though, dug didn't get accepted. That's a relief. When I've read the whole story, it seemed like a big drama but actually it can be summed up to this little story: - Chapter 1: dumb-admin and dumb-player get in a fight. Chapter 2: Dumb-admin uses his powers for personal purpose against dumb-player. Chapter 3: Dumb-player uses his powers against dumb-admin for personal purpose. Chapter 4: Then legitimate-admin has to back up dumb-admin because they're on the same admin-boat so he uses his powers for a kinda dumb reason. Chapter 5: And then dumb-player uses his powers over legitimate-admin which results in the world collapsing and the time getting frozen. Final Chapter: And finally, we got this news post which is far from a happy end. What's the lesson we learned? dumb + power = fail.
sArge	2010-02-16 16:05
	stop it! stop it right now! sorry guys but I'm sick of this crap ... stop insulting thg! its not his fault he's retarded :\ its god's fault! ban him not thg! thg I'm with you dude, need new wheelchair or something? just tell me man! hold on and dont get mad on ppl like us ... we just dont know how it is to be on your place : ( and yes, that log u posted is so called 'selfown'
Juzam	2010-02-16 15:07
	I'd like to present my sincere middle finger to anyone who thinks this a victory or funny. This was a permanent solution to a problem (thaigo causing all kinds of mess) that we cannot allow ourselves to think is permanent. First of all, then, please unrule that thaigo is not welcomed in ANY future EDL league. Like spectator_1 said, the disrespectful tone and attitude between some people here can't go unnoticed. When this kind of shit happens so publicly and on this level (between the admins and one of the most renowned q2 players), it really lowers the moral of everyone. But you can't "move on" to QL or whatever and hope it's different there. The scene isn't some ship that's sinking, it's the players that make it what it is. Learn to respect others and behave, or the same drama and shit will continue to accompany you. No need to point at anyone specific. Growing so weary of this shit. As for the demo-uploading, I can't always understand why players won't share their demos when asked -- maybe it gets on their nerves to read occasional unwanted reviews and critique later from Demosquad. Then again, they shouldn't really have to explain why: if it's so important for them, maybe it's the audience that needs to give it a rest. Now that there is DS, GTV, MVD2's and some rules enforce sharing demos, people are perhaps too used to seeing whatever matches they want. It seems that according to wision, it's already an unwritten rule. But surely it is the playing that ultimately attracts people to q2. This is just a side note, and to sum it up, maybe forget about the demos once in a while. (The only exception, of course, is that Revo next1 demo. GIVE)
Cheimera	2010-02-16 15:01
	yeh that log wasent really the best defence is it
Jeo	2010-02-16 14:49
	For me thg, that log u posted, made you look worse. ://///
Juzam	2010-02-16 13:25
	..________ ,.-.``~., ..,.-..-., .,/..:,.. ,?\,.. ./..,}. ../,:`^`..}. /,:/.. ..?....:`../.. ./.(..~-,,:`./.. ../(.~,..~,..,:`../.. .{..$;=,.-,.,.-~-,},.~;/.}.. ..((..~.=-.;,,./`./../ ,,,.\`~,~.,..`..}../. (.`=-,,.`(;_,,- /.`~,`-.\/\. .\`~.-,.\|,./..\,.. ,,.}.>-.\..\|..`=~-,. ..`=~-,_\`\,\ .`=~-,,.\,.\.. ..`:,,`\.... .`=-,.,%`>==``. .\.._,-%.`\ ..,<`..\|,-&``.`\..
Putka	2010-02-16 13:20
	Only 64 comments q2scene has gone to worse each year so all this doesn't surprise me.
arch^	2010-02-16 12:02
	Yes, nice ppl of QL come to q2scene to complain! Like you do... Asswhipe :p
Dimmo	2010-02-16 12:01
	QL has much nicer scene, time to switch
Cheimera	2010-02-16 11:56
	thaigo you dident think of that all your small one times "insults" like clown etc etc in the end people get tired of it. What you thaigo is saying is that, in EVERY singel discussion about you, you have ALWAYS been right. No mather what proves or explanations to why you have done something is given you you will NEVER say ah ok sorry my bad. Not once! So your saying in every problem you are mixed up in YOU are always right! That says alot of your personality. cause not ONCE have you been wrong... in ANYTHING. HF beeing yourself...
CoVell	2010-02-16 10:50
	http://www.internetshouldbeillegal.com/
name	2010-02-16 10:39
	http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/188238
kolt	2010-02-16 10:37
	after that log thaigo posted im even more sure he shud be banned well done
thaigo	2010-02-16 10:28
	Rl wrote: ban @ insta chann was because of insults, behavior and talking finnish ban @ edge chann was because of insults and behavior during official matches, when you were already out of the league. I maybe spoken a line or two in finnish at instachan, certainly not behaved bad or insulted in a way that would be appropriate to ban me for days. In edgechannel/during leaguegames I didnt insult u in any way, I once said in #euroq2l that u are scene clown, which resulkted in u banning me for weeks in edgechannel. Doesn't quite add up or was there some othere bad behaviour during edgematches and if so, what was it?
rl	2010-02-16 10:15
	I'm just wondering why do some fakes (like name) argue about subjects they have no clue... + i'm not an admin in EDL...btw, this whole story is already over, everything has been already said, nothing gonna change so another pointless comments here are just a spam...like the one below...
thaigo	2010-02-16 09:15
	01<wision> no demos from you = punishment 01<thaigo> ok 01<thaigo> publishing demos from u=ban to all servers 01<wision> sure 01<thaigo> yeh ok 01<wision> if you want to go that far 01<thaigo> not me that started 01<wision> i'm doing something for the scene and for the league.. and you're banning me from the servers.. see the difference? 01<wision> anyway.. i'm still waiting for those files 01<thaigo> yeah renaming them for ur pleasure 01<wision> i'd be pleased with original names too! 01<thaigo> there u go 01<wision> thanks 01<thaigo> and i dont care what ure doing or not doing, im saying not to publish my demos in 2x2 league when its not a must according rules 01<wision> it's a must according unwritten rules 01<thaigo> so 01<wision> rules which are known to everyone 01<wision> which is just called rule by you 01<thaigo> i dont know such rule 01<thaigo> so 01<wision> because for everyone else it's just a common sense 01<thaigo> remove those demos from me that are in ds 01<thaigo> or get banned 01<thaigo> 2 options 01<wision> i won't remove that demo 01<thaigo> ok 01<wision> and i will upload the demo you sent me as well 01<thaigo> ok 01<thaigo> u know what that means 01<thaigo> bye 01<wision> it means that you're going to ban me on couple of european servers i guess 01<wision> maybe you could name them? so i know where i can't play league games and let my oponents know 01<thaigo> if u really think hard, maybe u'll figure it out 01<thaigo> cause u know 01<thaigo> its common knowledge 01<wision> well.. maybe you're admin on more servers than i thought 01<wision> but ok.. nvm 01<thaigo> wizards, scarab, stan, okidoki, exhale, euroq2l and quaek 01<thaigo> and i will change the admin passwords, if needed 01<wision> thanks 01<thaigo> ur fault u wanna do this the hard way 01<thaigo> backing up some rule that isnt even written 01<thaigo> i can live with some random demos on ds tho 01<wision> i can live without those servers too 01<thaigo> nice, hope u dont start complaining then 01<wision> to you? why would i See? Wision agreed to not play on those servers. Me kicking wision there was just a reminder to what he had already agreed on, which is not play on those servers. I guess he simply forgot he is not allowed to play there and I had to remind him.
biah	2010-02-16 09:06
	And a comment for jakkari. I'd point you to the fact that this admin decision has been layed not due to a one time action performed, but also summed up a long story of antisocial behaviour towards admins and players in different leagues. These last actions just crossed the final line... So i guess if it wasn't for demos this time, it would be about screenshots next time, then servers, then irc chat ...
biah	2010-02-16 08:46
	Well when it comes up to me, the demos are supposed to be shared and uploaded. I want to give players the possibility to watch best games and players in action. And please don't point to the GTV. Most players can't attend every interesting game due to lack of time or their own games at the same time. So I would like to give people a chance to 'become' thaigo or cleaner for 15 minutes, to see the game through their eyes, learn from them and be able to give own judgement of the played game not from the flat screenshots but from a colourful demo. Also it could really help with investigating cheating, which seems to be an issue lately with all those enthusiasts trying to break anticheat. When a player knows that every game his demo could be requested and then displayed in public, he will think twice before trying to cheat. Some sceptics say that in this case there would be too many warnings and wo-s following them but I could give an example of Polish Q2 league where every game topscorers upload their demos and I didn't notice any wo-s following... A simple discipline which doesn't abuse anyone. Imho at the moemnt cleaner is seting a very nice example to the players by sharing his demos, which didn't occure too often before. And I promise you, soon I will really start giving warnings unless I get demos. And now a fiew words to those who refered to me as a sort of example to other admins. Please stop it. I am really not that experienced in admining and surely won't be able to run any league. Also I have never had a chance to show myself in any stressful situation and so far haven't even layed any decision, only shared my oppinion... Ofcourse I am very greatful and pleased for positive feedback on my work in eq2l. I am really hoping to keep up the good work as a simple admin.
kolt	2010-02-16 08:20
	jakkari u shud read more carefully what has been written here thaigo was warned at least few times - he didnt change his attitude he was still acting like an asswhole - thats why he was punished demos r for observers and make q2 more entertaining to watch
Cheimera	2010-02-16 08:11
	it wouldent have, but just cause you are not happy with a rule issue it doesent give you the power to ruin leagues and games for others no mather what.
jakkari	2010-02-16 08:09
	Cheimera wrote: any of this would have never happened if thaigo wouldent have kicked an admin from an game he was not even attending? thats how easy it would have been solved and spared from all this. --- How that would have been solved the demo upload issue?
Cheimera	2010-02-16 08:03
	but any of this would have never happened if thaigo wouldent have kicked an admin from an game he was not even attending? thats how easy it would have been solved and spared from all this. But you always push all the responibility to the admins, when its the players who has the biggest responsilibty to obey rules and play their games and everything would go smooth as hell, as it the most of time does with other players
jakkari	2010-02-16 07:59
	Cheimera wrote: Now, once again about this demo thing, if you feel like there is a such a need to please the few players who have problems with uploaded players, then you should work it and try to get a rule that says "a demo can only be published by an admin with the players consent". Instead of getting outrageous and act like a 5 year old that drops his lollipop in the sand. Thats true. Both sides should have dealed this problem better. since this shit will be affect more on q2 scene than some stupid demos. Now we will lost one all time top player and maybe even one top clan. Atleast there was some demos from thaigo before but now there wont be any.. and that was the issue before? "scene wanted more demos".
Cheimera	2010-02-16 07:37
	Jakkari, true you have every right to be angry/dissapointed and he dident get that "little" as you wrote imo. Now, once again about this demo thing, if you feel like there is a such a need to please the few players who have problems with uploaded demos, then you should work it and try to get a rule that says "a demo can only be published by an admin with the players consent". Instead of getting outrageous and act like a 5 year old that drops his lollipop in the sand. Edited: 2010-02-16 07:53
jakkari	2010-02-16 07:26
	Cheimera wrote: "And there is no rule about admins can not upload them, and Gravgon made a pretty clear review of why an admin can upload any demos he want." "is it still ok to interfer with league games where other players are participating aswell?" ------- I know that there isnt any rule why admins cant upload those demos. But there SHOULD be some kind of respect to players decisions especially when there isnt rule about it. Of course its not ok! What Thaigo did is just wrong.. but some how i understant his reasons to get little disappointed/angry.
Cheimera	2010-02-16 07:18
	ill be your personal one, just pm and ill help you out with the rules
arch^	2010-02-16 07:15
	Then I want dates and times...
Cheimera	2010-02-16 07:11
	We have already signed you arch dont worry haha =)
arch^	2010-02-16 07:10
	Where can I sign for these lessons? Sounds like good fun. Will all edl admins join in?
Cheimera	2010-02-16 07:04
	Jakkari its not about who started, thats just a guidance. And there is no rule about admins can not upload them, and Gravgon made a pretty clear review of why an admin can upload any demos he want. We had this demo discussion alrwady once before, and admins made it pretty clear to thaigo that they will upload his demos if they want. And that info did not most certainly not go past thaigo. So thaigo knew they can upload his demos, but still signed to the league. So admins doesent brake any rule in uploading the demo but a playuer kicking an admin from an official game is breaking a major rule. So if we do not upload any demos, then we get the same heat we got from the community last time. Now then we would get shit from the community for beeing bad admins. And now when we do upload demos we get shit from ONE player that we are bad admins and that player goes on somekind of personal vendetta rage and even betrayes the server owners in order to make a "payback". Now if thaigo would have brought the issue up the mature way with having a dialog with the admin he chooses and discuss it, maybe we would have gotten a solution or maybe not, anyway thaigo would still be playing games. Now i dont know if thats so hard to understand? Or do we have to start an division for certain players with "special needs" where we have lessons 2 times a week where we go through rules and read them loudly for each other. Now question is jakkari, if you think rl is a joke that is not a problem you have your rights to your own opinion, but think further, is it still ok to interfer with league games where other players are participating aswell? Edited: 2010-02-16 07:10
jakkari	2010-02-16 06:50
	"It all started in 2x2? league when Thaigo's demos were uploaded to demosquad." Well Cheimera where did this whole thing started then.. i know thats not only reason why this shit happened.. but this whole situation started when admins started upload demos on demosquad without players permission or even when players asked to not upload them. and i dont know about rl vs thaigo issue at all and i dont care about it just becouse this rl guy is huge joke! Edited: 2010-02-16 06:55
Cheimera	2010-02-16 06:30
	And Jakkari there is not a singel decision made because of some demo upload issue? Dont know where you get that from.
jakkari	2010-02-16 06:27
	Cheimera wrote: And name you are whining at RL like oooh its always rl, well 90% of the admins say oooh its always thaigo... Anyway just cause you dont like the admin doesent give you the right to kick him from a server during official games. And abusing your passwords. There are so many mature ways to do it. And i bet thaigo has enough age to not act like an plimpy teenager with a 24/7 hard-on well same thing for admins.. there should be admins mature enough to respect players decisions.. and q2 scene wont die if there isnt all match demos on ds especially now when there is qtv demos etc.
dug-	2010-02-16 06:09
	Cheimera said: But problem is, its hard enough to run these leagues and the hunderds of hours admins put down on doing this then its not that funny anymore, most of the players have no problems at all behaving. Admin accept his job, couse he wishes to run league as smoother and without any possible issues that might come during the league, imo, if the handling with the league or players is too hard for him, he should pass his admin seat to somebody else (who will obviously have more fun and gonna enjoy at doing his job - for example: check biah's work -> since he joined admin crew on euroq2l, i so loveee his work, he is avail always when needed, posting everything on time, doing niceee reports, etc !) for addition to this, i volunteer also, or even better said, almost begged admin's crew to HELP at running any league, since i was admin at NiDML, and ITDM ClanBase, u can see my work at NiDML site if u want (but ofc, they didnt accept me ) anyway .. i think the bond between admin - player should be more easygoing, more enjoyfull for everyone, couse if the scene has its purpouse to stay alive, we should all be friends .. i guess .. hating each other will just ruin everything :/ o/ Edited: 2010-02-16 06:14
Cheimera	2010-02-16 05:54
	Jou i do understand your point with like (a couple of kicks and banns, some honour thing lol) you know sure we can make it look even more ridicilous by saying, Are you fighting over an computer game lololol!? Amagad!. But problem is, its hard enough to run these leagues and the hunderds of hours admins put down on doing this then its not that funny anymore, most of the players have no problems at all behaving. And name you are whining at RL like oooh its always rl, well 90% of the admins say oooh its always thaigo... Anyway just cause you dont like the admin doesent give you the right to kick him from a server during official games. And abusing your passwords. There are so many mature ways to do it. And i bet thaigo has enough age to not act like an plimpy teenager with a 24/7 hard-on... Now server admins says kicking and banning is for cheaters! Not for your own personal opinions and vendettas against some admins or whatever, and you really do not kickbann some one from a server thats not your at all! And kicking an admin or any other player for a fucking demo upload? enough said my only post on this thread PS: Muerte should be happy about this decision, cause if it was not made it would have ment we AGREE to kicking and banning on servers where you have admin password. Witch Muerte little darling would mean that you could have a hard time finding a server... Now would it have been ok if i did what thaigo did? Dont think you would like that...
Jou	2010-02-16 04:20
	Haha.. I love the drama. This is yet again a very tough episode of the Bold and the Beautiful. Haven't seen these in a while, if I recall correctly last time I saw it, HBQ was the topic and before that clan plus(+). Noo, haha, I just reminded myself of the optimus-case. Well whatever. You know guys how these things was dealt with earlier in the days? Fighter nr1 (Thaigo in this case) banned every fucker from the servers he dislikes and the fighter nr2 (apparently 90% of the scene) banned the fighter nr1 from every league they could come up with and probably some servers. And btw I love the guys that are arguing here against each other of things that aren't even relevant in this case. And heh, well my opinion about this? I DON'T CARE! Let the guy play if he likes and let it go? This is a dying game and this won't help it. And for what? some demoposting, a couple of kicks and some honor issues? PLEASE. But still, won't say who's wrong and who's not wrong. I still don't really care of the matter. I only care about the fact that problems like these destroys this small community of ours. PEACE OUT
Hibru	2010-02-16 02:10
	http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503 rl you win!
name	2010-02-15 18:34
	@spectator_1 it's pointless to try to communicate with rl : thaigo tried and see what happened Edited: 2010-02-15 18:35
spectator_1	2010-02-15 16:59
	rl wrote: "@spector_1 i don't want to be rude but...WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU....what have you done for this scene/community, ha? nothing, and since you know sh-t about what's going on around on the scene, what gives you rights to talk such a crap/lies? ...you want me/wision/cheimera to leave admining? fine..." oookay then, see ya got a lot on your mind...np. btw, disclaiming rudeness doesn't excuse it ("i don't want to be rude, but...). Anyway, i don't recall my post asking for any admins to leave (nor indirectly either), telling lies or cough using ad hominems, but how's that working out for you Never understood why so many people still mistake any validity in attacking the person ("what have you done for this community? ha" etc.) instead of his message? Kinda thought "ad hominem circumstantial" fallacies of logic were thoroughly covered in school? Okay well, players, as we say in in the southern U.S., "y'all got your hands full with this one!" p.s. still loving those demos! keep 'em coming competitors p.s.s. biah for Chief Admin Edited: 2010-02-15 17:03
name	2010-02-15 13:41
	my 2 cents: I guess it would not happen without rl participation. He starts the flame wars ant trolls, but when somebody gets involved with him and "somebody" get punished, and rl goes away lolling
rul	2010-02-15 13:20

rl	2010-02-15 08:51
	ban @ insta chann was because of insults, behavior and talking finnish ban @ edge chann was because of insults and behavior during official matches, when you were already out of the league. and now thaigo ....tell me the reason of kicking/banning me/wision while we were admining games or just to get a slot for yourself...? also, i suggest you to read rules...it's admins decision about requesting demos, not yours...but for you white is black and black is white...that's why it's my last post about this 'situation'...since you're just whining and complaining about everything we do...you can always run your own league, with your own rules, spend couple hours a day just to make it happend...
wision	2010-02-15 08:50
	You kicked me only once because I didn't let you kick me 2nd time. And don't forget I can freely upload those demos you sent me. Same goes to your request for me to ask all other players to upload their demos. I do not have to follow requests like these. Btw you are reading the news in wrong way.. from 2x2 league you are kicked because you deliberately and without any real reason were kicking admins from server while they were admining matches and from EDL you are kicked because you interfered with the league and harmed on of its matches. Ad gtv or multipov demos, I have never said what you just mentioned. Don't interpret my words in your own way which fits you.
kolt	2010-02-15 08:45
	i dont think ur in a position to request anything from admins now u may kindly ask
thaigo	2010-02-15 08:28
	About kolt's post: It's not as much blackmailing anyone as it is more of counter reaction to what rl did to me first. Same thing with wision, he uploaded demos against my will to ds, told him not to do that, he kept adding more, I kicked him once. As simple as that. Counter reaction. Like I said in the previous post, if it were the same "rules" in edl about demosharing, as in 2x2 and euroq2l, why are they actually different? I wonder how many people there was left in current leagues, if they had to upload demos the same way I had to: all demos, every league, every game and no matter if I played good or bad. Check for example how many demos has wision uploaded this season? One. So now I request wision to ask all the players, all the games, every leagues demos to be published in demosquad, because I want to watch them. Wonder how many demos I will be seeing there and how many people will be kicked, because 2 demos missing = kick from the league. And remember, gtv or multipov demos are not accepted as a request-demo, wision already told me that in irc when he was asking for my demos.
gerppa	2010-02-15 07:26
	I'm the one faulthy for the last seasons happening in 2x2? PURRI, im sorry for that but I had my trips going across the finland already when the summertime started for me.
wision	2010-02-15 07:17
	Thaigo keeping kicking somebody from server is pretty much equal to banning. Incident with rl ended when you received official warning in 2x2 not to act abusive towards admins and rl was informed not to be abusive towards you. Rl stopped, but you didn't.. you kept kicking admins from servers during league games. You were told many times that you don't own rights for those files you sent me which are supposed to be league matches. It's just my own choice if I will follow your request or not. You yourself said that what you say about those demos is just your own opinion which you can't back up anyhow. Also you mentioned couple of times that you don't care about your demos being on DS. You said that to me on IRC while you were threatening me and then some other time. If you don't care, why did you start making such a big fuzz about it? Why did you start kicking me from servers if you don't care about couple of your demos on DS? Decision which disables top player to play in leagues is for sure bad one.. but much worse it would be for the scene and players to keep player with your behavior in. Sometimes there are no good and bad decisions.. there are just bad and worse. Why do you even mention rl by the way? He has nothing to do with EDL. And mentioning just me is not really proper since I would never be able to make such a decision all by myself. Thaigo read kolt's latest post here.. anything to explain there?
PURRI	2010-02-15 07:12
	Not that it really matters, but from last season: http://q2scene.net/2x2/index.php?op=descr&id=65256 I could go on saying the winner of this season 2x2 is not worthy since I'm not in. But why go there? When it comes to edl there are only 2 players that are really missed from current 'active' players that could really make a difference in top 3. You are not one of them. Get over yourself. It's sad that it has come to this, but what has happened and done is just something that was forced. You are not above the scene. To me this is not about rules/accusations here and there. It's about manners and sportsmanship, to me you lack all of that and thats the real problem, espesially since you are one of the oldest and well known players in our scene. Thats the real issue to me. Edited: 2010-02-15 07:16
thaigo	2010-02-15 06:55
	Both edl and 2on2 news are wrong to begin with: I have never banned rl or wision from any server, kicked yes, but banned no. Incident with rl started when I called him a jackass and he banned me from edgeleagues channel and instaleagues channel, even when I was part of instaleague and trying to schedule games. I informed him not to do that again, but he kep banning me every time I joined those channels for several days. Then I said that, he is no longer welcome to those servers mentioned at newspost and therefor kicked him twice from those servers. With wision the incident was because of 2x2 demos he uploaded, not edl cause there is a clear rule that one has to share demos when requested and I have done so every time asked. One can only ask themselves why is there a clear rule about demo sharing in edl, but not in 2x2 or euroq2l for example. About the earlier gamescheduling issues in edl, wision and other admins already said that I was right playing games like I did. Check my game against Aid, they game me WO from it when Aid couldn't play at scheduled time. These decissions are justified that it's good for the scene. Well, boss has played 2 seasons in 2x2 league and never lost a single map. Whoever wins the 2on2 league, is not imo worth trophy. Same goes for edl, I might not have won that one, but would certainly make an impact. As for euroq2l, wizards won last season and I have no doubt we could win this season too, but I don't have any intrestest in playing q2 anymore with such idiotic decissions. I dunno but doesn't seem a good decission for the scene. Of course, rl and wision are admins, they must be right every time and that justifys their every action. Lemme remind, I was the one who was done wrong in both situations, me kicking rl and wision was just a counter reaction to what they did. So i'm not the one who started this. Anyway, talking about this is not gonna change anything. Both have their own opinion and are not gonna change it no matter what. This means I will not be playing q2 anymore, maybe some 2on2's every once in a while. Gl with the fucked up q2 admins, hope there is players/clans for next seasons too. Edited: 2010-02-15 07:04
arch^	2010-02-15 06:22
	I agree also with admin's decision. But let's also not blow up things. I think thaigo is just very stubborn and has some sort of misplaced principles that he can't let go off. For sure he didn't intentionally mean to harm the scene, and also let's not turn it into some flamewar!!!
sil	2010-02-15 06:07
	I knew there is something wrong with this guy but now I have no words Shame on you thaigo, you fooled yourself and finally you revealed your "real face" (GG btw ) There should be no mercy for such people I would ban this "kid" everywhere if Ill be able to I do like and I totally agree with Purris idea Guys, you really should avoid playing with this moron. I dont think this "accident" is funny at all Oh, and btw Can anyone tell me, how old thaigo is ? : ) Edited: 2010-02-15 06:08
jakkari	2010-02-15 06:05
	Its so sad that this ended like this. And what a stupid reason it was why this started at all.
PURRI	2010-02-15 06:01
	It's sad that it had to come to this. I fully support the admins decision. I would even go further and remove thaigo from all leagues, but thats just me. I have felt uncomftable to play with/against this person since I cant even remember. Official games will be no problem anymore. Muerte, you really need to stfu as well sometimes. You make no sense. Ps: No player/team is bigger than the admins or the scene. Edited: 2010-02-15 06:03
biah	2010-02-15 05:46
	to rl: no need te be that rude and no need for bragging here. People who cherish what you have done to the community do understand the situation, and those who don't care will stay like that till the second coming of Jesus. imho spectator_1 is just no seeing the big picture here and, as many people do, brings his oppinion up to absolute. and to spectator_1: the peaceful way is always the best, but some people just can't feel the line between compromise and ass licking. You give them a finger, they chew on the whole hand. As it was said in report/news "Of course we know we can't please everyone". In this case admins are pleasing the majority, even though with a cost of loosing a true Q2 talent like thaigo.
AlexyeNov	2010-02-15 04:59
	it is should be fixed by rights removeimg...
kolt	2010-02-15 04:55
	for those who r defending thg here: blackmailing admins? not letting 2 players play on a server and banning one of them? nice joke
rl	2010-02-15 04:48
	@spector_1 i don't want to be rude but...WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU....what have you done for this scene/community, ha? nothing, and since you know sh-t about what's going on around on the scene, what gives you rights to talk such a crap/lies? ...you want me/wision/cheimera to leave admining? fine, but this website will be dead within a few months, same as q2 (i'm pretty about it), there will no leagues at all....this guy (thaigo) should be banned months ago everywhere where it's possible...and again: <+PURRI> but the damage you have done to this small but quite active community i will not be part of anymore, you can quite rules and whatever.. you dont see what I mean then it's just as i thought.. you are in your own little world. (...) <+PURRI> the next leagues i will force a rule that says, Rule 1.1 thaigo is not playing or me(PURRI) or my teams will not play. <+PURRI> bigger asswhole you cant find in q2 today, what happened to you? (...) <+PURRI> you will see shortly I even more I guess, but I think I can speak for majority of the scene (if you dont belive me then you dont have to) when I say you are not very liked the way you act and the way you deal with a lot of games, issues, using of rules and your manners.. <+PURRI> we wont have admins soon <+PURRI> we wont have leagues <+PURRI> lowereing moral of teams/players <+PURRI> and you are a big part of that (...) <+PURRI> this is about past 8 years of always having thaigo in some trouble with admins, rules, players, argues and whine oh and btw, we can't keep ignoring whiners/insulters (muerto for example) who is blaming everyone (except his idiols) for everything not knowing shit! it's exactly why this communinty is dying, because of people like him....noone is paying us for this (admining), we're doing this for the community, we spend our free time to make these things happend...always trying to be objective/fair...cause non of us give a shit who will win this or any other league...seriously. Edited: 2010-02-15 04:51
AlexyeNov	2010-02-15 04:19
	Hibru: lol...
sovet	2010-02-15 04:07
	About demo publishing authority. Sadly, it is not up to a player to decide whether he wants his demos to be published or not. An admin reserves uncontested right to always have the ability to receive a demo of players pov during an official match. With this, there is an extension for demo publishing by an admin is added. This has always been the case, starting already back at ClanBase. The only way a player can reserve the right to deny demo sharing of an official match is by not playing any official games at all. If that was the case with an unofficial match, i.e. Thaigo wanted Wision to remove a random friendly game demo the latter uploaded to the DS, Thaigo would be correct, but here - no. So, no periods with authority over demo publishing of official matches. Honestly, it is pointless argument now. The decision cannot be changed because, then, it would simply show the lack of integrity in league procedures. I can only say that despite many consider it to be a friendly pastime, for many it is a competition where friendship is secondary (I mean, when we will be seeing Purri-Syanid final - of which I am quite sure, will these two think of how great friends they are or how to kick each other buts?). Don´t confuse friendship with respect for others, these are two different concepts. And in light of this knowledge, whenever there is a threat to scene´s future and tournament´s integrity, be it an abusive behavior by a guy who wants to dictate his own rules, he should be punished in some way.
Hibru	2010-02-15 04:04
	AlexyeNov: Thinking is not the strongest part of the Russian region. Nice post spectator_1 Edited: 2010-02-15 04:07
AlexyeNov	2010-02-15 03:55
	no Demos = no Thaigo. But i am not understand, why Thaigo is so noobish lool teenager. And.. kick of wision from the server... it is most stupid action ever. Edited: 2010-02-15 03:57
zolton	2010-02-15 00:35
	stuped lols Edited: 2010-02-15 00:37
spectator_1	2010-02-14 21:27
	[COPIED FROM thg/jol THREAD] wow, just wow! Since this seems to be the thread about the thg decision, ill weigh in. I used to review demos on old US site q2players.org(daelmun frequently advised me), watched way too many demos here and on xsreality over the years. Observations: - Everyone has known thg's opinion on demo publishing authority for a LONG time. His opinion hasn't changed. Bringing up the "what do you have to hide" charge completely misses the point he's been hammering for years. He would simply like to have authority over whether or not his demos get published. Period. - Discussing legal crap, etc. is really, really silly and points to one thing: The "players" involved in this drama have lost respect for each other, dropped from a casual level of friendly gamemanship to some lower level that resembles litigants in court! - At some point, somebody neutral should have recognized the level of disagreement and brewing tension to STEP IN AND MEDIATE! - A mediator can then remind the parties that the whole point of league play is to get, at this point anyway, old e-friends together to enjoy a very old game they still love to play competitively. The BIG PICTURE. - Just reading into the tone/attitude displayed here between some admins and players shows how much erosion of respect there is...just an accumulation of frustration. - Summary: Just very, very sad that people of good faith (meaning, "you want the best outcome" weren't able to come together and resolve enough issues. So as a result, removing a potential EDL semifinalist and possible 2x2? champion from league competition is the best possible solution and is IN PROPORTION to the original issue at hand?? a fair question...and who wins? fans lost for sure p.s. another nickel for my thoughts: my experiences with mrt keep me coming back to q2scene.net, as he's pointed me to certain demos, shared his pov's, helped me navigate the confusing, multinational q2 scene that I really enjoy learning about and admiring the astonishing skill/coordination a handful of players have developed over almost a decade of play(for some). That aside -- admins, you will always have an "ombudsman" type member of any gaming scene. If y'all were smarter, use mrt positively and encourage what he does best (on-server eyewitness/reporter) and don't feed him when he pushes your buttons! management 201 Edited: 2010-02-14 21:39
biah	2010-02-14 20:10
	Nice! vote yes You could also add public displays of nationalism and the list would be full! Pitty people get spoiled like that... Edited: 2010-02-14 20:18
kolt	2010-02-14 19:52
	good decision go away if u dont wanna cooperate
Muerte	2010-02-14 19:51
	I've previously asked how low could fall wision complete situation shows that the rl wision on perfidious way irritate, insults, and ban from official irc channel deliberately provoked a reaction of thaigo acting as the almighty admin a really spoiled as a child he was intentionally brought to this situation deliberately irritating thaigo about demos wision now hiding behind kicia (mother) who took over the duty to protect the spoiled, weeping child wision if is league actually harmed when thaigo kicked wision from server why match wision vs gerppa is not replayed why wait 5 days if is not synchronized 'dirty' action from rl/wision/cheimera 2x2/EDL crew but if rl /wision/cheimera action was expected and predicted sad that even kicia/syanid fall on this 'performance' ah wait they both was part of admin EDL crew who orchestrated 'false democratic vote' before start EDL #8 about maps, kicking PURRI'S maps q2dm3/q2rdm1 and not allowing greatest map (koldduel) in last 10 years to get in... some ppl become admin to help q2 stay alive, sadly most become admins to gain goods for them or his clan or to cure the inferiority complex PURRI was sadly right: its time to move from this 'game'
psm	2010-02-14 17:39
	salaga
feeble.	2010-02-14 17:21
	didn't know about it, since i'm not that interested in EDL nor 2x2. for me it's an example of behaviour of a retarded child. shame on you man, thought you are more wise
arch^	2010-02-14 17:15
	The most funny news I've read in q2 since 1997.
sArge	2010-02-14 17:09
	HAHAHAHAAH : DDDDDDDDDDDDd

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