correction:: jeez, I'm stupid. I'm shure as well he meant that welk. what can I say, I was wrong! Everything I said should be ignored. It's just that... he mentioned the "idea", which I connected with my...uhm, my "idea" about the mystery prizes. See? So it can easily be misunderstood. Albeit I always thought it was weird he'd mention it at this thread instead of the other. But never gave second thoughts. I was in a dense hazy mood back then too....I wasn't judging at its peak so to speak. I replied with my instincts u could almost say...
nrk: please accept my apology. I don't mind at all what you prefer about my "idea" about the freeze vs nofreeze subject. Somehow I really thought u were referring to my other recent idea/concept & so my defense mechanism awoke and thus my previous message was posted.
you can still sign up past the due date but everyone who didn't vote before the due date won't have their votes counted? i'm sensing a little favortism there
edit:: as u may know nrk, sign ups are officially closed but not impossible to enter. At least for a short while. ...PFFFFFFFFF and there we have it - wST entered! This EDL surprises me. However, I'm waiting for a different "sign up" to be officially approved.
" his fav map and he even don't want it to be in EDL "
sofiene, you obviously didn't get my sarcasm, I was taking the piss out of the players crying about dm7 with that BOOOHOOO! stuff, if I didn't want dm7 I wouldn't have voted on it
haha tei yeh it's me ... i just wanted to see ( and maybe play ) dm3 again in EDL, dm7 sucks in duel mod, really, i have played it so many times with fla ( his fav map and he even don't want it to be in EDL ) im a high pinger and i don't like it :/
going to work and paying bills are different than playing in a voluntary tournament. if playing in this tournament is going to pay your bills, then someone needs their priorities straight. i was actually busy. 1 email isn't an adequate reminder FYI. so i took it upon myself to post on the tasty forum, something [you] should have done.
perhaps you can learn a thing or 2 about courtesy.
There will be no extension of voting, you had your chance to vote the maps you wanted. The vote was publicized with a link on the main EDL page and in a post on Tastyspleen's forum. I spammed every person in the EDL Crew gmail contacts saying that EDL was starting giving a link to the news post (which had a link to the vote). This would include every player that has played in the last few years. The vote was open for 2 weeks. I didn't have enough money to rent a billboard...
Where was your reminder jaquiro? Who reminds you to go to work or pay your bills? Grow up, you're an adult, take some responsibility for yourself. You didn't know the vote ended on the 22nd? Read the first post on that map vote thread, it's in BOLD: "You have until Sunday, September 22 at 23:59CET to vote". I can't make it any more clear than that. Like Welk said, the vote ended a week before signups closed to allow people to decide whether they want to signup and potentially play all of those maps.
I could've just picked all the maps I wanted (which wouldn't have included ztn2dm3) but since you guys have to play them it's better for you to pick them. And you did - or had the chance to. There are 11 maps total, having 1 or 2 you don't like on the list isn't the end of the world.
Don't you guys get bored playing the same old maps over and over again?
i agree reverence. i mostly think throughout all the tourneys that have been played through the years, players have selected maps that were representative of competitive play mostly. not just fun maps.
keep track of all the maps that were ever played. you would see that it is more or less consistent throughout.
The laissez faire principle is the best way to go. voting has always dictated what maps are in a rotation. whatever maps were played in the past were meant to be there. this fact holds true. extend voting until the 29th.
extend the mapvoting for another week, somehow link it to the main page of edl where people can vote through the edl homepage instead of being re-directed to another page like ficha mentioned.
i'm not gunna sit here and argue/discuss why i think dm7/bloodrun are poor maps but i will make 1 post with my opinions. 80% or more of the people i've talked to think it's a not a good duel map with 1 powerup and 1 weapon which dominates all others this is just obvious - not much reason to ever leave 100 armor, perhaps if i collect shards for 4 minutes i could contest?
as for bloodrun i feel the rg is so powerful here with such a large map combined with slow rockets and how chaingun works compared to the lg in ql/qw i don't think this map fits q2 very well at all.
these are only my personal opinions of course people may think differently but i think there are better maps that a majority of people may prefer like some of the ADL maps as mentioned in a previous post.
Armour is only 1 aspect of control. There are many types of control and they are all relevant in dual. Such as position control, controlling health (which is even more important than armour), controlling weapons, controlling regions of the map. A map with little armor and health (like DM3 and 7) is all about refined play. Hitting those important shots. Getting in the better positions and staying out of potential bad positions. Being more creative!
dm7 is a vanilla map. old from q2's inception. very large and very boring. IMO it's all about the center armor. there are no other powerups on the map.
it's debatable that a map with one powerup takes skill. tourneys have always been about controlling a map. now players that can do that will have no problem doing so. I'm primarily a CTF/Ra2 player. so i can only give insight to my preference and observation.
The issue isn't really about the maps. i'd accept whatever the players vote for. it's about the deadline. if this scene is really more focused on getting "new talent" then it should be flexible enough to accommodate players within the signup period.
i really don't see what the big deal is by extending the voting. if people are touting democracy .. democracy. they would extend the voting period for those that may have had some reason to lapse in voting.
it's not about voting maps out of the rotation. if players really want them, those maps will be there.
I hate to break it to you but players actually got worse with time, not better. Knowledge and intelligence are two different things. Most people have the former, but the latter has evaporated over time because of the improved of technology, such as mice and keyboards, faster and more stable internet, and faster computers with better clients.
Players are more 'carried' now. They learn tactics and strategies from players in the past, people who innovated Quake 2. The new age players don't contribute anything, and because they have spent more time 'playing' instead of actually 'refining' they find maps like DM7 that require a shred of intelligence to control difficult to adapt to. They prefare crap like ptrip, duel5, and rdm7, where they can just run around with their phat internet and framerate, with masses of experience just spawn raping.
Hence why they can't adapt to new maps that are new to them DM7. And before you say DM7 isn't new to you. There is a difference being knowing a map and knowing how to play a map.
where were the reminders? i check into tasty all the time (where the main base of american players are) also even if it may not have been a strawman, it did seem like one.
since you assumed the basis for my map selection was that the maps just look pretty to me. in all actuality it was because i have some familiarity with the maps and like the layout.
what it looks like to me is that there are a set amount of players here, who prefer maps and let the voting lapse and kept the map chatter down to a minimum, so they can play THEIR maps. how is that getting the community involved?
even last year the notifications for playing were at a bare minimum. players who signed up that were absent and those that showed up for their matches had to wait long periods before they were penalized for not showing.
i understand you guys don't get paid to do this and do it for fun. i just feel the notifications could be much better. if you want to get foreign players involved, i think that is a priority. euro players may come here often, but others may not frequent these boards. just asking to keep that in mind.
dude, read up on what a strawman argument is before you start throwing it around.
"like i stated, i didn't know the deadline was the 22nd. why would admins need a week to sort out what maps are going to be played? it's not like there is any maintenance involved. the maps already exist on the servers." that is actually quite close to a strawman. and i answered this question already.
another almost-but-barely-strawman is how you're putting all the responsibility on the admins, how you're saying that they didn't make enough of an effort to get people involved, which i find completely unreasonable. claire and his crew has done all that can be demanded of them, and probably more, but the players sense of responsibility lacked once again.
to ensure everyone who wanted to vote gets the opportunity to vote. put up a list of players that didn't vote yet and put it on the main page. set map voting to be synchronized with the signup deadline, for the 29th
that way if their name is there they can't complain they weren't notified. it's only fair. that goes for the signups as well. post it on the tasty message board and link to it. so everyone who wants to sign up can easily.
i don't see what lazyness has to do with it. some people just might not have the time or simply weren't notified/reminded enough, or simply forgot . What players should be concerned about, is the signup deadline, as it is ample time to signup and get situated.
you can kick yourself if you miss that, but voting maps? cmon
i do think this tournament would be more fun and cooperative when everyones input is considered.
sorry but that's a strawman argument. so if you want to resort to using strawmans, then i can easily say, that i'm not asking for a million dollars. nor did i know this was quakecon. all i'm asking is add my measly vote to the roster.
like i stated, i didn't know the deadline was the 22nd. why would admins need a week to sort out what maps are going to be played? it's not like there is any maintenance involved. the maps already exist on the servers.
it not like you have to manually place them there or do anything whatsoever. like i said, it's counter-intuitive to place a restriction on voting before the deadline to signup. not everyone has the time explore these options. especially newcomers.
jaquio: there's no point in having screenshots in a map vote, as you're not supposed to vote for maps depending on how they look. if you don't know the maps, it's probably not a good idea to vote at all.
proposing to extend a voting deadline because you personally didn't find the outcome favorable.. cmon guys. or wait, yea, let's do that.. let's extend the deadline as long as it takes to remove rdm2. all in favor?
edit: to whoever asked why the voting deadline was sooner than the sign ups deadline.. that is so that you'll be able to know what you're signing up for. wouldn't matter much if it'd be on a sunday or a tuesday either.. those who don't care enough to vote in the first 2 weeks, aren't likely to get off their sorry asses to vote in the next few days either. and people always whine when they don't like how it turned out, regardless of when the deadline is or whether or not they participated in the vote. sums up the nature of this scene.
why wasn't voting extended to the 29th, the actual date when the tournament signups expire? or the 27th at least? i was under the impression both would expire on the 29th.
Players that aren't satisfied with certain map(s) have to still accept the Official Map List. We can't just add more time to an already closed and finalized extremely important voting. To the participants who never bothered to vote for this season: better luck next year!
i like bloodrun. i think its a good map, and thats why i voted for it on the forums :< obv people who are complaining about it havent played muffinmans version of it. really, that map is perfectly fine for duel in q2. (and claire is right. bloodrun is a map designed for duel that was remade for quake 2, just like aerowalk.)
as for dm7, there are probably more people complaining about it than there were people who actually voted for it, so it's their fault for not voting for it, rofl. maybe if all the people making sarcastic comments about dm7 being in the maplist would have gotten off their fat fucking asses and voted for something else, this wouldn't even be an issue. i mean, even though i hate a map like dm3, i still understand why people like playing it. but ive honestly never seen a single nigga play dm7 on a euro server.
oh well though. nothing can really be done about it. might as well hf at this point.
Ppl still whining like hell I see 2 illogical statements that's being talked about the "shameful" dm7:
1.: If ur not even signed up, yea shure u may think the map pool is a bit disappointing, and if u plan to not sign up, then what is the big deal?! It's not like ur gonna play the games urself....no one is forcing u to watch the dm7 games if they gonna be that terrible. Have fun and follow the games, support ur fav. players, support the q2 scene, regardless which map is being played.
2.: Bitch about dm7 if ur signed in......yet never cast a vote to affect the results? Ur only making urself reflect "unnecessary behavior" and have really no reason to crying out loud for smth U did not make an available contribution for.
Totally illogical !
nrk: the top ADL maps were selected into this EDL map voting, they still came from Another league so they still had to be "voted in".....and bloodrun simply made it. Democratic choice - most fair! Ppl decides!! Next time, folks, learn to vote [I mean this to all].
sofiene: eh? ...(%)... wth? is it u? where does the rabbit pass, lol
ABOUT dm3 / bloodrun. Yea we seem to hear a lot about these maps why or why not was(n't) they selected. dm3, I agree, is one of the "obvious choices". Yet it was "hardly" played in previous season of edl, and quite little in that edl before then. It isn't apparently as popular as in the past.....nothing we can really change, it's up to the players and their picks! lol. And it's obvious few cared for it even in this edl again, not that many votes exactly. If more cared to vote AND actually go for it in games.....we maybe would have dm3 come to edl more easily. Just by typing buuhuu i want dm3 back won't change the attitude of its popularity. Maps gonna earn it. Every year! Too bad we don't have it, yes. But again: democratic choice!
bloodrun, I heard, might come out in a new updated version soon (hopefully in time) before the kick off. Apparently the map maker will fix some bugs present currently at the map. It was a pretty famous map in ADL. Players obviously liked it there. Ppl voted the map into edl. We need fresh maps to edl ... democratic power again...
ficha: vascular is a goooood map :\ (splendid idea how to cast votes in the future btw...smth like this would probably earn more votes in seasons ahead.)
I guess ppl vote not so active, coz there is no vote on the main page of EDL. As for me - i was too lazy to run forum registration to vote. In Russia we have quake2 portal and all votings attached to the main page of this portal, so everyone can vote without extra links.
From my point of view thare are minimum 3-4 maps worthly than bloodrun and dm7. Maps like WASTED and VASCULAR more balanced even, than traditional POWERTRIP.
The most annoying solution is too leave DM3 behind the board. I guess DM3 is a fundamental map for overwhelming majority of quake2 players. Such classical maps as DM1, DM3, ZTN3 and ZTN2 must not have been banned from EDL maplist. And no votings have right to kick theese maps.
there's many maps i'm not particularly fond of.. but i definitely think dm7 will add something to the league. it's really different from what people usually play, and it's far from the least well balanced map around.
Like I said, People are whinging about DM7 because it's a hard map to play and requires innovation and raw intellectual skill.
All those players who spent the last 5 years running about a map to the point where they can just spawn rape with their low pings are going to struggle.
Time to separate the men from the boys...
On a side note: DM7 will probably not even get played that much, people have to pick it remember.
Secondly Barton, DM2 was never a duel map, it's design isn't efficient enough for duel. And if people are spawn raping on maps like DM1 and DM3 then it's because the skill gap between players is too big, has nothing to do with the map itself.
dm7? bloodrun? fuck that. Since when we playng QL maps (bloodrun) on q2? to get more ppl in the game? Dm7? bitch please too. And no DM3? even tho ppl not playng much, but its like second best map in q2, doesnt matter if its boring or not. Very disapponted with the maps. rdm10, broken3 or frdm3 should be in that list.Simple because they are top3 maps from ADL.
alexj, k1ru: you had 3 weeks or so.. to write down 5 maps, but you made something like ZERO EFFORT. sweet and you can notice from results that your votes would change everything.
It's funny how ppl start moaning now when they all had the equal chance to influence the map pool outcome by voting their preferred maps. And most didn't care to do this. Then they should not care how the map pool was being formed. They should not cry...cause many have no reason to...only if u voted urself....and yet...that doesn't guarantee UR votes will make it. It isn't very hard to grasp these facts and truths.
Obviously most of the voters wanted dm7 to be in edl....why vote it if they're not interested to play it? I think we will see more games on dm7 than on dm2 from previous seasons....by far.
Dm7 is excellent for dueling. I kinda laugh when ppl say it's actually a tdm 4x4 based map. WTH. a map that tiny with EIGHT players on it? C'mon........
It will always be either a great ffa map or a perfect duel map! (and 2x2 works too!) Way to many maps incl. a rail-chain which u can easily dominate with. Thanks to dm7 there's a map with none of them! Here u must think. RA is crucial....as well as RL. or u can go with hb+ssg combo. even the machinegun is useful. There aren't many ammos on the map. OFC, it would be too rapy otherwise!
BOOOHOOO! DM7? that map with not many waepons and ammo? BOOOHOOO! and there's not much health either BOOOHOOO! and if I fall to that green slime I can melt BOOOHOOO!
lol People, stop crying, q2dm3 is considered by many a must in any duel league but nobody is moaning now that it didn't go through.
1. Sure, I'd rather play dm7 over fury and match1, but I'd rather not play any of them in a league match. 2. It doesn't matter if it's an old school duel map. dm2 was as well but I doubt most folks like that map now and want to play it in 1v1. 3. You can play and win that way on most Q2 maps. Q2 is a brutal game.
1. Take a look at some of the seriously shite maps already included in the EDL for the last few years.
2. Do some research, because they will find that DM7 is actually an oldschool duel map.
3. Realise that shite like ptrip and rdm7 are only played because the noobies can sit and point there weapons at spawn pads for the easy victory because they are incapable of using intellectual power to play real maps that require skill beyond a low ping and spawn rape maps.
claire: dm7 is a terrible map because it's not very well balanced for duel (bad spawns and item placement, map geometry that heavily favors one weapon that can be easily controlled thru an entire match), and it doesn't offer much strategic depth. Even though I think dm2 is also a bad map for the same reasons, at least it does much better in the "strategy department".
Whatever I guess. Just because people voted for this map, it doesn't mean that it will get played. dm2 barely got played last season. I just don't see the point in adding bad maps in the map pool, even if you give people the option to not vote for it.
if people had played GROWLIS for at least once, i think it would be in first place.
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