Since this seems to be the thread about the thg decision, ill weigh in.
I used to review demos on old US site q2players.org(daelmun frequently advised me), watched way too many demos here and on xsreality over the years.
Observations:
- Everyone has known thg's opinion on demo publishing authority for a LONG time. His opinion hasn't changed. Bringing up the "what do you have to hide" charge completely misses the point he's been hammering for years. He would simply like to have authority over whether or not his demos get published. Period.
- Discussing legal crap, etc. is really, really silly and points to one thing: The "players" involved in this drama have lost respect for each other, dropped from a casual level of friendly gamemanship to some lower level that resembles litigants in court!
- At some point, somebody neutral should have recognized the level of disagreement and brewing tension to STEP IN AND MEDIATE!
- A mediator can then remind the parties that the whole point of league play is to get, at this point anyway, old e-friends together to enjoy a very old game they still love to play competitively. The BIG PICTURE.
- Just reading into the tone/attitude displayed here between some admins and players shows how much erosion of respect there is...just an accumulation of frustration.
- Summary: Just very, very sad that people of good faith (meaning, "you want the best outcome" weren't able to come together and resolve enough issues.
So as a result, removing a potential EDL semifinalist and possible 2x2? champion from league competition is the best possible solution and is IN PROPORTION to the original issue at hand?? a fair question...and who wins? fans lost for sure.
No thg you cant win ztn now or whatever @It was a greAt fight anyway,and people shoud talk about the high quality of the duel, not some admin vs ppl wars @ Some1 upload JOL ztn2dm3 demo PLS,i hate to repeat my self
lakizzz and others keep asking/discussing here, I answer here. Wouldn't make sense for me to answer in some other page.
About the edl game, so that it wouldn't be totally offtopic, it was nice that we got the game played eventually. Tight games too. I watched the z3 demo and it was like 10-6 for jol @ 4-5 minutes left the game and I had control, but I totally lost it in stupid mistakes. That even happened 2-3 other times also, I think I could totally have won that map too. Tho I guess u could say the same for jol in other maps too, cause all the maps were kinda tight.
It's different if someone else records my gaming, then I can't do anything about it what he does with the file, except playing in servers where one can't record my playing.
And I do have the rights to my own recordings and I'm only sending them to admins with a knowledge that I still own the rights to that demo.
Anybody could have recorded a spec demo of you. A demo is just a recording of your actions in the game, there's no intellectual property on that.
It could be different if somebody would use your demo to make money but it's not the case.
Your actions in a video game aren't protected by any law on intellectual property contrary to products of creativity like writings, music, art, etc.
So if you record it yourself or if somebody else does, it doesn't matter.
Then if you record it, it's just a file on your computer, so it's your property. Until you decide to give it to someone, then it becomes his property too and he can do whatever he wants with it.
Maybe one day some progamer will take that to court and the actions in a video game will be covered by the law on intellectual property but so far it hasn't been the case.
When wision upload your demo to demosquad, he didn't break any "real life" rule. He might have broken your trust and hurt your feelings but that's not illegal :p
it dident take long thaigo, my bad that you are whining about 2x2? things on the EDL page, now pls stop it here and carry on with it on the 2x2? page. ty
I disagree with u there gravgon. Whose would the rights be if not mine, the recorder of demo. There wouldn't be any demo if I didn't record it.
The only reason why I sent the demos, is that rule says I must send them, that doesn't give the other person any right to do whatever they want with it.
Cheimera, cause this is the place where the whining started? If the whining starts here, should I answer to posts in some other page? That's just plain stupid
You seem to have some sort of problem understanding text. I have never disagreed to share edl demos, that is not what this is even about. It's about other league demos. I have understood the rules, I have followed the rules, so where's the problem?
why are you posting about other leagues on the EDL page? other league issues you bring up on the certain leagues page not here. Clear enough for you?
In EDL we the admins take any demos you have and we upload them how much we want cause thats in the rules, if you are not happy about it then you should never have signed up, you are breaking the rule that says you have to undertsand and know the rules. You can put how many (c) symbols you want in an EDL demo and we will still upload it cause no one forced you to join this league. You should have known before you signed to the league that we have the rights to publish your demos. You fail again.
Soooo, what ure saying is that I should start naming the demos as 2x2-boss-cccp-thg-(c)thaigo.dm2 in order to show you that I own the rights to that demo? WILL DO BOSS!
and lol for your edit. I HAVE AGREED TO UPLOAD AND SHARE ALL THE DEMOS IN EDL, BUT NOT IN OTHER LEAGUES BECAUSE THERE IS NOT SAME RULES AS IN EDL. GET IT NOW?
thaigo as you said "IMHO" thats the exact moment you fail.
And all you got to say in irc is "i go by rules" thats exactly what you dont do you go buy as you just said "IMHO" its like you are participating in "thaigo league" well this league is not only for you its for everyone.
"The abusing of admin rights comes in when wision asks for demos as an admin and then uploads the demos to ds, when he has no rights to those demos."
No he doesent since its not in the rules... But you are breaking the rules.
8.1 All players MUST record demos from every map and keep them until the end of the league! 8.2 Admin may ask for any demo at any time and it is player's duty to provide this demo. 8.3 All the demos from any league stage can be forced to publish.
3.2.3 By signing up to the league, the player agrees that he have read the rules and that he understands them.
Doesent seem like you have read the rules or understand them.
Cheimera, why exactly should I join in a crew that I don't get along with? It's not like my opinion would matter any more than now.
"Now this is interesting coming from you Thaigo: "Imho muerte is already doing a good job for the scene by recording demos from almost all the games.""
What is so intresting about that? It's good that there are demos and one can get those demos from muerte IF the player gives a promise to share them. This is what separates muerte and wision. Wision is uploading demos without a rule to back him up and without players promission. In edl there is a rule that all demos can be published, but not in euroq2l or 2x2 league. This is how wision is abusing admin rights (I do have to send demos to admin, but not share them in public).
I did send wision 2x2 league demos and said not to upload in ds, guess what he did? Uploaded them to ds, of course. I sent him more demos cause he requested and I said that If he don't remove the first demo, I'm gonna abuse my server admin rights and ban him from Wizards, exhale, scarab, okidoki, quaek and euroq2l servers. Guess what he did? Uploaded more 2x2 demos from my pov. So now wision is not welcome in any of those servers, not as a player or admin. That is purely his own choice.
Arch, I guess u said something similar to cheimera.
RL, you talking about someone other than yourself being ignorant and childish? That's classic Ure a funny man.
Oh and wision, If u keep abusing admin rights that are given to u in wizards server and others, like changing rcon in wizards server, I will change all the passwords so other admins can't have them for leagues either.
the more comments muerte writes the more i feel sorry for him his level of frustration is very high last days and one can see that in his comments i am patient but will not tolerate that kind of behaviour especially all that nationality crap he crossed the line and i expect him to stop it
Lol thaigo. When you don't agree is exactly when you should admin yourself. If admins do exactly as you want, why would you wanna change anything?
Mrt does also some good things yes, but his writing is almost never right, no. They are useless posts with no valid arguements and mostly the bullshit my 2y old cousin could write too. Maybe you and him are a bit alike, and that's why you think he has good points?
You both like to pick fights with admins and stand your ground without having any valid arguements. Both stubborn as hell
Muerte whines for the sake of whining, not to actually reach something, cause then he would do it differently. It is a bit like what I am doing right now actually. Like cheimera, I also know mrt will never be able to understand it, yet I am here writing
But the difference is that muerte whines at admins who spend their time to keep q2 alive and run leagues.
Thaigo if you dont agree on the decisions that exactly the reason you SHOULD become an admin! That was the main reason why i became an admin and why i think is one of the reasons they asked me to do admin job.
Because i whined about many decisions myself back in the days but also i accepted when i was proven wrong many times aswell. And i have had your back in many things thaigo i promise you that.
And thaigo if you feel an admin is abusing his posistion then you can contact any other admin and give a full explenation why you think exactly that admin is abusing and in what way.
The only thing i dont actually understand is why do you think wisino is abusing his posistion? Especially in leagues where the admin in question is not even playing himself. The only ones having somekind of personal vandetta against wision is actually you and muerte. IF now wision would habe been abusing his posistion i would actually guess he would get heat from the whole scene and not only a couple of players. since the whole scene usually follows all the leagues.
Now this is interesting coming from you Thaigo: "Imho muerte is already doing a good job for the scene by recording demos from almost all the games."
Imho muerte is already doing a good job for the scene by recording demos from almost all the games.
I think Muerte is not going to admin for the same reason I don't want to do it either: We both don't agree with some of your decissions and at least I don't like wisions style of admin abusing.
Muerte might give a lot of critisism and exaggarate some things, but there is usually some good points in things that he is pointing out.
Each time you whine about admins you have been given a full explanation.
Each time after you have been given the full explanation you run off.
For us it kind of proves you attentions. You are not interested if we do right or wrong, you are only interested in making our job and our time we spend on doing this for the community as hard an as boring as possible.
Do some good for the scene with your enourmous amount of free time and techinical skills you posess.
"no wonder why is scene this low with admin biased behavior when slow person like Aone could turn off /uninstall /not install udm drivers for his motherboard and had "hdd lag" so all players should turn off udm drivers and send prof about "hdd lag" and not record demos any more?"
Help the guys out instead, since your not playing and your not admining but still your always here...
btw: i am not even expecting an mature or serious answer on this one because you have failed everytime this far in having a dialog.
And one more thing, keep that nationality/racism to yourself nobody wants that shit, pointing at "and now with help low life pole/greek admins" not the first time you bring nationalitys in discussion that has nothing to do about it.
Muerte you never did not play, just sitting there and your thoughts, stupid! All general anyway what are you talking about, no one will accept seriously!
muerte feel free to let me know on which site are your comments being deleted and i will take care of it..
about hbq admins.. noone else is arsed enough to do the job.. it's not like we (me, gerdt, gravgon, spam) started to admin just because we'd like to spoil the game for all of you.. that's not really worth our time. we are doing admin job because we want to do something for the scene.. you think that gerdt started the edge league half a year ago just to create a league and ruin it right after for the players? that's a bit silly isn't it.
lol Me banned from all leagues? Then you can ban all players from all leagues I guess. That is what you want? I can tell you one more time. If all HBQ players were banned from all leagues, 100 players would complain, if not, 5 would complain.
If aone would be banned for whatever you meant in your post, 100 players would complain, and now 1. If wision would be banned, 100 players would complain, and now 10. WHEN WILL YOU GET IT? Everytime you complain you have made the decision to be with the minority.
You make the BEST decision, and not the WORST. Even when the best decision doesn't make everyone happy.
No, it's not your duty to complain about all those decisions. If you have any duty at all, it's to become an admin and do a better job.
As far as I know kicia/syanid been in admin crew for a long time, and I'm sure they support all of wision's decisions. So your arguement that there was no reason to complain before, when wision wasn't admin, is kind of bullshit!
"NEWS"
Wision is banned from adminning edl by other admins because they didn't agree on his decisions. Therefore this edl season ends now! Bye, and thanks for a great season all.
Syanid.
Many players would like that I guess!!!!!!!!! Or maybe not...
well arch if players like u from hbq was banned from all leagues because that lift incident in half final eq2l or if wision was banned from all admin position after same incident or if all edge admin crew was banned after kolt cheating incident and Aone fake "hdd lag"
there was not reason to "complain" before but when HBQ biased crew took over admins position on q2scene and now with help low life pole/greek admins
muerte coming up with some technical stuff when most of q2scene is just able to run q2 and play it is kinda silly in my opinion.. i could come up with hundreds of reasons why many people should be banned and i'd explain it the same way you just did, even tho those people wouldn't understand a word of that explanation.. that's not good way of doing things
Mrt complaining again? Lol It is really like you have some fulltime job of complaining at q2scene
It is starting to get truely sad mrt, stop it while you can. The only thing you can do to recover your dignity is to switch your fulltime job to becoming an admin and doing a better job. So, when will we see Mrt adminning euroq2l and edl?
Great Fight from bouth sides,but still wondering if thg,plays more offensive-he will be a beast no doubt,and about Jol,he have a great style -Ztn2dm3 was another level,never seen before a fight like that @pls some1 upload ztn demo pls !
no wonder why is scene this low with admin biased behavior when slow person like Aone could turn off /uninstall /not install udm drivers for his motherboard and had "hdd lag"
so all players should turn off udm drivers and send prof about "hdd lag" and not record demos any more?
If u mean by taking wo when my opponent can't play on scheduled time, that I might have been able to do this time too. My opponents seem to always have some sort of problems playing on scheduled times and this time was no different:
Session Start: Sun Feb 07 22:47:38 2010 Session Ident: Jol Session Ident: Jol (Jol@Jolaos.users.quakenet.org) 0101[12N01] Query Started with: 12Jol!Jol@Jolaos.users.quakenet.org 01<Jol> you're herE ? 01<thaigoz> yes 01<Jol> i've got some pretty fucked up problems with q2 01<Jol> im disconnected over and over 01<thaigoz> 01<thaigoz> any way to fix that? 01<Jol> and u was wondering about reschudle if its possible 01<Jol> im trying all the time 01<Jol> with ac, r1q2 and antyvituses 01<thaigoz> yeah im ok with the reschedule now since its playoffs 01<thaigoz> even with this short notice
So once again, 45 minutes before the gametime, my opponent has some problems playing. Hopefully Jol gets his quake fixed before the game this time.
Edit: Just trying to say that the wo's that I have gotten have nothing to do with "outsmarting" or wanting to get wo's. I simply wanted to play the games on tight schedule so I would be in best shape possible for this league since I don't duel otherwise than in this league. So whatever for example Russian emofeelings Aid's game or some other game might have hurt, I just don't care.
Jol
wision
weren't able to come together and resolve enough issues. 
@It was a greAt fight anyway,and people shoud talk about the high quality of the duel, not some admin vs ppl wars 
